Dungeon 140, 141 and 142 have no FR or Eberron content

[ShinHakkaider]

It's also easier for you to add salt to french fries than to take it out. Must EVERYTHING be plain to accommodate those who can't handle flavor?

I think what you mean, is those who dont care for the flavor that you like. It's not that we CAN'T handle the flavor, we simply dont care for the flavor. You'd rather force your flavor down our throats rather than simply stop supporting the product that you have issues with and move on.

For instance, if Dungeon started with a preliferation of FR and Eberron adventures I'd simply STOP SUPPORTING THE MAGAZINE, since it would have things in it that would be absolutely USELESS to me. I don't play or run anything in those worlds and dont want to. Converting those specific adventures to generic adventures is work that I'm simply not interested in doing. Eberron and FR are supported outside of DUNGEON with published adventures, buy those. Leave those who dont care about FR and Eberron our generic adventures in DUNGEON.

 

[takasi]

In a marketplace that was big enough to support more than one ice-cream cone a month, that wouldn't be the case. But, unfortunately, it's not big enough.

It's three flavors per month, not one. In fact, there's also a few other small desserts on the side which are also vanilla flavored.

And, in a universe where more people don't want salt than those who do, if you can only offer one item, it's gonna be the salt-free one.

In this universe you can offer more than item. Again, must everything be served one way?

If Dungeon's sales were big enough that they could spin off an Eberron-only mag and a FR-only mag, you'd be in hog heaven. The simple fact is, they're not. Everything needs to be able to live in that one monthly mag. (And, remember that, a couple of years ago, sales were so weak that they considered pulling the plug.)

And, as the Dungeon staff has noted any number of times...too much setting-specific content weakens their sales.

33% sounded good. Even 25%. 0% seems like overkill. It's foolish to never play it safe, but to take no risk at all is even worse.

Dragon seems to sell, and every issue has or is planned to have setting specific material.

 

[takasi]

For instance, if Dungeon started with a preliferation of FR and Eberron adventures I'd simply STOP SUPPORTING THE MAGAZINE, since it would have things in it that would be absolutely USELESS to me.

Are you saying you use everything in Dungeon magazine? What about Downer? Or the Final Fantasy preview?

Even the generic adventures. Are you honestly saying you've used every single adventure in Dungeon?

I think there's room for vanilla, chocolate AND strawberry. As long as you get vanilla I don't see why you would stop buying ice cream if chocolate and strawberry were also served...

The difference between you and me, I believe, is that you will only buy the magazine if you like EVERYTHING in it whereas I will buy it if I like ANYTHING in it. Yet you are claiming that I am the one forcing something down your neck? I see the situation as exactly the opposite.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Dragon seems to sell, and every issue has or is planned to have setting specific material.

That may be true, but I dont buy DRAGON because it's of no use to me.

It doesnt have adventures, DUNGEON does. Hence it's useful to me. The addition of specific settings to the adventures would make those adventures useless to me and would lose me as a customer.

 

[takasi]

That may be true, but I dont buy DRAGON because it's of no use to me.

It doesnt have adventures, DUNGEON does. Hence it's useful to me. The addition of specific settings to the adventures would make those adventures useless to me and would lose me as a customer.

This is another example where you will only buy the magazine if you like everything it has to offer rather than something. The addition of setting specific material to one article or adventure does not make the entire magazine useless to you unless you are, IMHO, irrationally critical. You could not say the same to someone who is looking for just one article or adventure of a specific setting that does not require setting adaptation.

 

[Vocenoctum]

If Dungeon's sales were big enough that they could spin off an Eberron-only mag and a FR-only mag, you'd be in hog heaven. The simple fact is, they're not. Everything needs to be able to live in that one monthly mag. (And, remember that, a couple of years ago, sales were so weak that they considered pulling the plug.)

And, as the Dungeon staff has noted any number of times...too much setting-specific content weakens their sales.

I don't think anyone is suggesting making it all Eberron or anything. Or even 1 adventure every issue being Eberron. If one adventure is Something Else (Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Other Stuff) in each issue, that probably wouldn't offend folks. It would be interesting to see if the issues sold fluctuated a lot by issue.

The other element is that only Dungeon can produce Eberron or FR adventures (aside from WotC), whereas generic adventures abound all over the place. (Though less are available now.)

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Are you saying you use everything in Dungeon magazine? What about Downer? Or the Final Fantasy preview?

And this here is why people have an issue with you. Point to where I said this in any of my statements. Please. Point to it.

DUNGEON is a magazine that presents adventures for use for the D&D game. That's the focus of the magazine, that's why I buy it.

That other stuff you posted, what you posted in general is just you either trying to be clever or whatever.

Even the generic adventures. Are you honestly saying you've used every single adventure in Dungeon?

Once again point to where I've said this. Look respond to things that I've said and stop making up things that I supposedly said.

Now to answer your question: No, havent used ALL of the generic adventures but the fact is that I CAN use them with ease if I wanted to without having to worry about if the setting is going to clash with what I want to do.

I think there's room for vanilla, chocolate AND strawberry. As long as you get vanilla I don't see why you would stop buy ice cream if chocolate and strawberry were also served...

For once I agree.

But if I walk into an ice cream parlor and they dont have the flavor I want, I dont come into the parlor every few months and start bitching about they dont serve the flavor I want. I'll enquire once, maybe twice as to why not, then I'll take my buisness elsewhere. No hard feelings.

The difference between you and me, I believe, is that you will only buy the magazine if you like EVERYTHING in it whereas I will buy it if I like ANYTHING in it. Yet you are claiming that I am the one forcing something down your neck? I see the situation as exactly the opposite.

Once again, never said that I have to like Everything. What I've said is that I dont care for the setting specific adventures and if there were more of those they would lose me as a reader. If youre going to come at me at least come at me using something I said as opposed to something that you infer from my post.

 

[James Jacobs]

There's always a lowest common denominator. Not sure why you find that insulting but it is true. Three times in a row Paizo has chosen to go with what the majority can stomach in every article rather than take any risks to create something exotic that might not into every round hole.

Pleasing the majority is fine, but there should always be some consideration for the minority. Three times in a row they have chosen to snub them completely.

I do my best to ignore these insulting and often misdirecting posts, but now and then I can't hold back. Our research has shown time and time and time again that core/"generic" adventures are more popular. Forgotten Realms and Eberron adventures, while they have fans, routinely end up being on the lower end of the adventure popularity curve. I suspect this is because readers who don't play in FR or Eberron tended to rate them low because they viewed them as "unusable" for their campaign. And while I don't agree with that opinion (there's good stuff in Eberron and FR that can be ported to ANY campaign setting), the fact that we please less readers when we run FR and Eberron adventures than we do when we run core/"generic" or nostalgia-heavy adventures is a big reason that we don't print more FR or Eberron adventures. Another big reason? We simply don't get many FR or Eberron adventure submissions. It's the truth. The people who write for Dungeon prefer to write adventures not set in Eberron or the Forgotten Realms, possibly because the sheer prospect of making sure your adventure doesn't go against established world canon is to daunting.

Issue #142 may contain three "core" adventures, but one of those, "Masque of Dreams," happens to be a core adventure that is set in Mystara. We don't pimp that fact that much, because we want the casual reader to not be scared away by the fact that this adventure's set in a non-core game world, but the fact of the matter is that it falls into the category of "Campaign World Adventure."

Issue #143 has an Eberron adventure. We've ordered art for it, so it's not going anywhere. It's a short adventure, so I'm sure that'll disappoint you, but it's still set in Eberron.

Issue #144 has a FR adventure. There's a VERY good chance it's going to have a Planescape adventure (in the same way we've got a Mystara adventure in #142).

But in the end, over the past several years I've been very observant of our numbers, our sales, and our surveys. We base our decisions on what to do with Dungeon on this information, and that's why you see Dungeon doing what it's doing today. And judging by the fact that our subscription numbers and sales have been going up steadily for the past year or two, I feel confident in saying that what we've been doing is the right decision.

Could we have made EVEN MORE money by putting in lots of FR and Eberron content? Based on the big picture and on our market research and reader feedback, I feel completely confident in saying no, more FR and Eberron content would NOT have saved Dungeon.

I'm sure you'll find plenty of things in this post to misread and quote out of context, and frankly, at this stage, I don't care. After working on Dungeon for three and a half years, I feel pretty qualified to say what does and doesn't work for the magazine. If my decisions don't sit well with you, I'm sorry, but I don't make Dungeon just for you.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

This is another example where you will only buy the magazine if you like everything it has to offer rather than something. The addition of setting specific material to one article or adventure does not make the entire magazine useless to you unless you are, IMHO, irrationally critical. You could not say the same to someone who is looking for just one article or adventure of a specific setting that does not require setting adaptation.

D00d, your ability to comprehend what I write is AMAZING.

OKAY. This is what I wrote:

>>That may be true, but I dont buy DRAGON because it's of no use to me.

It doesnt have adventures, DUNGEON does. Hence it's useful to me. The addition of specific settings to the adventures would make those adventures useless to me and would lose me as a customer.<<

Just to make this clear:

DRAGON DOESNT HAVE ADVENTURES.

I'M INTERESTED IN ADVENTURES.

HENCE DRAGON IS USELESS TO ME.

THiS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT DUNGEON MAGAZINE.

I would expect you to know this is what we are talking about, because, well heck..you started the thread.

 

[takasi]

Mr. Jacobs, was all of this really necessary? Is it really more important than getting the next issue out? It seems like you're always in a crunch when people ask about conversion notes but I can pretty much time you to the nearest minute on your response time to my posts.

Your feedback on my feedback is (almost) always appreciated but I would much rather have the time and effort spent elsewhere (specifically the notes for 139, 140 and 141).

And good lord, placing a supposedly "generic" adventure in an actual licensed setting backdrop? Say it isn't so! I thought these things just weren't done?

The rest of your post is just defense of the status quo. If it's what you're doing it must be the best way possible right?

Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with being a little too headstrong? I feel almost guilty about the current situation, because I'm beginning to suspect that the lack of setting specific content may actually be my fault! Despite very vocal, constant complaints about Wil Save, Downer and First Watch you continue to adamentally defend your decisions as "marketing knows best". Even after Wesley Crusher quit (from hate mail no less) you still defended the articles despite its nearly unquestionable rejection by the vast majority of your readership.

We've discussed at length your ability (or lack there of) to commission quality adventures rather than rely on whatever fans are willing to contribute. I'm sorry to see that the magazine hasn't been successful enough to support the former. Oh well...