DuskBlades

[Stalker0]

I also think its stupid that duskblades (and bards) don't get mage armor.

Sure, you can wear light armor, so MOST people wouldn't use it. But some people want no ACP, some people want the ability to walk around without any armor and have protection, some people like having armor that works against incoporeal creatures. And some people are willing to use a spell slot to get that protection.

Remember options not restrictions?

 

[Gloombunny]

One of the advantages of the Duskblade is simplicity. It is a decent Fighter-Mage in a can. Just like the Beguiler is a decent Thief-Mage in a can.

Can you make better multirole characters by careful multiclassing and feat selection drawing from multiple sourcebooks? Sure.

But you can't beat the Duskblade or Beguiler for ease of use. That's great for an overworked DM when designing NPCs or for novice players who want to play "a trickster mage" or a "fighter that dabbles in magic" without having to look through a half dozen books.

Plus, duskblade lets you play a warrior-mage right from the start, instead of having to endure several levels of waiting to play the character you wanted. And between channeling spells and free quickenings, you can actually play a magical warrior instead of a warrior who can cast spells when he isn't fighting. I love that part.

 

[Sitara]

True, all are great points. But it still hurts that the duskblades spells basically falkl by the wayside as lvels go up; the Raumathari Battlemade (who can also channel spells tw, if I remember correctly) will be tossing fireballs and lightning bolts and ice storms while the duskblade is flinging rays.

The dblades main advantage is the quickcast, but the battlemage and/or the eldritch knioght can do the same with the quicken spell/twinned spell feats.

 

[Morrick]

Kelgore's Fire Bolt

I have a very simple question. I am playing a Duskblade for the first time and prior to that I never came across the spell Kelgore's Fire Bolt nor has my DM apparently. So here is my question in terms of its use. Is it a touch range attack or does it work like a MM and auto-hit.
I am aware of the SR and Reflex rules but in terms of its actual attack mechanics I need clarification. Is a roll to hit needed and whether it is auto-hit or not is there actual documentation to support that issue on the Wizard Site? Thanks for the input.

 

[Gloombunny]

I have a very simple question. I am playing a Duskblade for the first time and prior to that I never came across the spell Kelgore's Fire Bolt nor has my DM apparently. So here is my question in terms of its use. Is it a touch range attack or does it work like a MM and auto-hit.
I am aware of the SR and Reflex rules but in terms of its actual attack mechanics I need clarification. Is a roll to hit needed and whether it is auto-hit or not is there actual documentation to support that issue on the Wizard Site? Thanks for the input.

Why would there be an attack roll? The spell text doesn't mention anything like that. You deal damage, they can make a Reflex save to halve it. That's it.

 

[Victim]

True, all are great points. But it still hurts that the duskblades spells basically falkl by the wayside as lvels go up; the Raumathari Battlemade (who can also channel spells tw, if I remember correctly) will be tossing fireballs and lightning bolts and ice storms while the duskblade is flinging rays.

The dblades main advantage is the quickcast, but the battlemage and/or the eldritch knioght can do the same with the quicken spell/twinned spell feats.

How does improved base attack help if you're going to toss fireballs?

The duskblade isn't about having magic and combat skills; it's about combining them, using them at the same time. And it does so without emphasizing prebuffing.

 

[Kat']

True, all are great points. But it still hurts that the duskblades spells basically falkl by the wayside as lvels go up; the Raumathari Battlemade (who can also channel spells tw, if I remember correctly) will be tossing fireballs and lightning bolts and ice storms while the duskblade is flinging rays.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. It's as meaningless as comparing Rangers and Clerics in terms of healing. A Duskblade is primarily a melee character who can also use a few ranged spells, not a full blaster who can also go melee.
BTW, where does this PrC you're talking about come from?

The dblades main advantage is the quickcast, but the battlemage and/or the eldritch knioght can do the same with the quicken spell/twinned spell feats.

Yeah. Great. A prestige class with extra feats can do the same as a base class who gets it for free. Oh, and I guess those PrCs do not get a d8 Hit Die either. Ever heard 'bout return on assets?

Finally, the armor issue: Sure, at low levels Mage Armor is pretty good. At high levels you can throw in armors outranking any spell in terms of efficiency, and still get low or no ACP. Or you can ask your DM to houserule this if you think it is a real lack. I personally don't.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I just want a better spell list.

One way to do this is with Paizo's DCv1. There is a host of "Bloodline Feats"- like various Elemental, Fey, Plant, and others- that add 9 spells to the list of any spontaneous caster, based on his ancestry. So, such a caster with the "Fire" Bloodline Feat would get to add a listed 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. spell to his spell list, while a PC with the "Plant" or "Illithid" feat would get different ones.

 

[Sitara]

@Kat: The raumathari Battlemage, one of the best and most powerful prc's for 3e, appears in unapproachable east (first supplement released for 3.5e). Its a remake of the classic Ad&D2e kit.

Its also up on the wizards website as a free preview for the unapproachable east book.
Just do a search for it.

 

[Kat']

OK, read it. For those interested, have a look here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030413c

Now, if we compare this class to the Duskblade, we get some good points for the Raumathari, being:
- Ability to Quicken, Still, Silent, Empower, or Maximize up to 5 spells/day (Duskblade only Quicken 3/day at best)
- Channel Rays and single-target ranged spells through sword attack (Duskblade only touch spells)
- Channeled attacks grant a bonus on attack roll
- Focus sword grants +1 CL and +1 DC to channeled spells

OTOH, the class also has:
- 3/4 BAB
- D4 Hit Dice
- Only one good save (Will)
- EWP: Bastard sword and Combat Casting as a prereq (two useless feats)
- Two dead languages as a prereq (veeeeery useful)
- Only 4 uses per day of the Channel ability
- Sword focus must be, well, a sword. Channel ONLY works with this focus.
- No ability to cast spells in armor

So, if we compare, say, a Duskblade 20 to a Ftr 1/ Wiz 5/ Rauma 10/ Eldritch Knight 4 (a pretty simple build)...
DB: BAB 20, base saves 12/6/12, CL 20, 20d8 (avg. 90 HP), 5th level spells
Rauma: BAB 14, base saves 9/5/12, CL 17, d10+15d4+4d6 (avg. 57 HP), 9th level spells

The Rauma is by far a better caster (though he loses 3 Caster levels in the process), but quite a poor melee combatant. Low HP, only 3 attacks/round, no armored casting, limited use of Channeling and limited weapon selection... he cannot stand toe to toe to a Duskblade for raw melee potential. Which is, precisely, where the Duskblade really shines.

A better gish than the build presented would be Ftr 1/ Wiz 5/ Rauma 4/ Eldritch Knight 9/Spellsword 1, who would have 16 BAB (allowing 4 attacks/round), better HP, ignore 10% ASF and CL18, but lose most of the Rauma's interesting features.