Eberron - Cool or Drool?

[der_kluge]

I would also add that a setting that depicts the PCs as heroes right from the get-go is automatically going to turn me off. I'm just not a fan of "Harry Potter Syndrom". I want to play, Frank the street bum, who rises up to slay the tyrant. That's way more fun for me in the long run.

 

[Anax]

Ahh, but Harry the street bum who raises up to slay the tyrant *is* a heroic character. The point isn't characters who are from-the-get-go uber (although having one level in a PC class does put you a little ahead of the game), the point is that whatever the background, the characters are quite capable of growing powerful and working to change the world.

Is that a property that any DM worth his salt is going to have in any campaign (except perhaps one based on Norse or Zoroastrian legend)? Pretty much, yes. In this case, the contrast is between Eberron, in which the highest level well-known (potentially) friendly NPC cleric is level 16, vs. Forgotten Realms, where you've got people like Elminster running around.

Is that a huge huge deal? Not for some people. But that's what's meant by "the PCs are extraordinary", not that they're somehow bigger than life even at level 1.


For me, the biggest attraction right now is a coherent setting that blends all of these features together. There's a danger of syncretism here--throwing all of the rules (psionics, what have you) into a pot without thinking about how things relate. In a way, I feel like that can happen more with a setting like Greyhawk or FR in which you sometimes have to take a ruleset like Psionics and say "Well, it's been here all along, we just haven't been talking about it." I think that Eberron feels better than that. Eberron not only has hooks for things like Psionics, the descriptions of the world I've heard feel "big enough" for there to be secret organizations and cults hiding practically in plain sight with powers nobody knows about, as well as the tried and true "stuff that's far away so we don't know about it." In Eberron, you can ignore psionics if you want--after all, the race that's all psionic is off in a distant land. But if you do want to bring psionics in, you don't have to wave your hand about some race of psionic people that we've just never noticed right here in the middle of the map.

A good example is a person who (perhaps misguidedly) is talking on the WotC Eberron forum about how to integrate the OA shugenja class into his Eberron campaign. I was skeptical at first, but now he's talking about what is essentially a secret society type cult religion, which worships and gains divine casting abilities from the elements. Given Eberron's range of religions (cleric spells are granted by entities as diverse as: a normal pantheon of deities, the physically-manifested-on-Eberron Silver Flame, and collectively by the living-dead ancestors of the Aerenal Elves) this is not at all unreasonable.

So I guess that's a big appeal--a bunch of diverse stuff that feels, from the parts I've heard so far, like it all fits together.

The other appeal for me is having both significant dense urban and very very metropolitan areas (like Sharn), and back woods in the sticks kind of areas. It provides a lot more (to my mind) explanation for how an elf mage, a human paladin, a half-orc ranger, and a gnome rogue are going to hook up together. That's not to say that Greyhawk isn't a pretty big and metropolitan place--it just feels different. *shrug*

 

[Dragonblade]

I like it because unlike Dark Sun, or Planescape, or Ravenloft, Eberron does not seem to be a one trick pony.

I like theme based settings for mini campaigns, but not for extended play.

Also, the Realms feels sort of like they just duct taped a bunch of disparate ideas and themes together. Eberron feels like it encompasses all of D&D but much more seamlessly fits everything together.

In the way the Greyhawk personified 1st edition, and the Realms personified 2nd Edition, Eberron finally is the setting that personifies the 3rd Edition feel.

 

[Hellcow]

Ahh, but Harry the street bum who raises up to slay the tyrant *is* a heroic character.

I don't have anywhere near enough time to address all of the points raised here, but in general you've got what I was trying to do in mind with your answer, Anax. Taking the section quoted above, that's exactly the point. The PCs have the potential to be heroes that shape the world, because of the lack of powerful benevolent NPCs. But there's nothing that marks them as "chosen" in the eyes of the world; their potential will have to emerge (and if the DM doesn't want them to be world shakers, don't evolve that as a theme). One of the goals of the setting is to provide a lot of different options for character backgrounds, giving you a reason to adventure as opposed to being "a guy with a sword". The war is a big element of that; one of my favorite campaigns centered around a group of soldiers from Cyre, the country destroyed at the end of the war. You have a group of people who fought for a noble cause, and who all know each other and have some justification for the skills that come along with levels in a PC class. But everything they fought for has been destroyed. Their homeland, their families, and friends -- are all gone. What do they do now? Do they struggle to rise as heroes? Or do they simply fall to cynical greed, working for one of the many morally gray forces in the world?

Yes, none of this is revolutionary. All D&D characters *should* have the potential to be heroes. All settings should offer a host of interesting ideas for character background, if that's something the players want to explore. It's just something we had in mind from the start while putting Eberron together, and hopefully it comes out in the book.

 

[Nightfall]

Like I said before Keith, Eberron is on my list and I'll now add BoIM too.

(won't get into arguement with people over the net about stuff that has no bearing in my enjoyment of gaming.) You people go to hell your way. I'll to it in mine.

 

[Dagda]

I'm actually quite excited about it. I want to read it first and just enjoy that, then I want to run it and see how it goes. If at that point I don't like it, oh well. I'll bet I use it though.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

And knowing that I have people who want to play a variety of races, a more metropolitan world seems like it might be better. I've just been reading through my Kalamar stuff, among other things, and while the racial tensions are interesting, the fact that only one or two cities in the whole setting are very mixed in terms of races is rather off-putting.

Sorry for the thread interruption, but I couldn't let this one pass me by.

If you look closely at the cities in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting, you'll see that there are a lot more mixed race cities. ( I've been working on the City Map Folio lately, so I know whereof I speak even better than usual. )Granted, the human cities are mostly human, but there's still a good mix.

For example, here's a handful of cities (and most of these are from Kalamar itself, not cosmopolitan Reanaaria Bay!):

Balelido; Population 6,400; Isolated (6,000 Kalamaran humans with Reanaarian, hobgoblin or other humanoid heritage, plus 400 hobgoblins and other humanoids).

Bet Bireli, City of Ears; Population 10,600; Mixed (8,800 mostly Kalamaran humans, 300 dwarven refugees from Karasta, and 1,500 various humanoids).

Bet Dodera, City of the Mounts; Isolated (17,000-17,500 Kalamaran humans; 500-900 elves, half-elves, gnomes and other humanoids).

Bet Rogala; Population 20,900; Mixed (approx. half are Kalamaran, Brandobian and Dejy humans, with other half being even numbers of gnomes, halflings and elves).

Prompeldia, City of Thieves; Population 15,800; Mixed (9,800 mostly Brandobian humans, 2,200 halflings, 800 hobgoblins and 3,000 various humanoids).

Shrogga-pravaaz, City of Giants; Population 5,500; Mixed (mostly even numbers of humans, kobolds, hobgoblins, gnolls and bugbears, with a handful of ogres; even larger creatures sometimes visit).

Shyna-na-Dobyo, City of Celebration, City of Wine; Population 17,510; Mixed (17,000 humans of Dejy and Dejy/Brandobian/Kalamaran heritage, plus 510 dwarves and elves; many halflings live outside the city).

Now back to your regularly scheduled Eberron discussion...

 

[Dirigible]

The Lightning Rail, dude! The Lightning Rail!

Vindicator, you are a man after my own heart.
Well, you can't have it. The Organ Traders have dibs.

I you think Eberron is all about robots, trains, and dinosaurs, you are ignorant. Read up on it.

There's more? You had me at robots, trains and dinosaurs.

 

[frankthedm]

However I'm still confused as to how they can justify an obviously (to me anyways) steam-punk setting (it uses magic to justify the technology in my understanding of what I've read) as being a valid competition winner. From what I remember about the contest rules, you couldn't do this. So did it "slip in" because it explained everything with magic? Since it has already won, my opinion cannot change what has happened ... it's really just a question. Anyone got an answer?

The setting looked the most 'kewl' & marketable so they ignored the rules to let it win.

 

[Knight Otu]

The setting looked the most 'kewl' & marketable so they ignored the rules to let it win.

There were no hard and fast rules (except it had to be D&D, not D20 Modern), only guidelines.

Source: This thread.

Q: You say "medieval", but how far is too far for politics and technology for this setting?
A: Once you have common use of gunpowder you're probably to far on technology. Variant political or social milleus are all fine. We are concerned about technological level not political structure.

...

Q. Give me an exact answer on the use of technology in my setting!

A. “I'm not going to give you an exact answer more than I've already given. Just remeber the further you get from the core rules the more you will have to impress us. Its your call.” (source: Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Can I submit a proposal for d20 Modern instead?

A. “Regarding d20 Modern - no we are not interested in submissions for d20 modern only D&D. And no we are not limited to Eurocentric. Medieval should be read as a time period or a technology level not a cultural or geographical location.” (source: Enworld Message Boards)