ECL of Planetouched races too High?

[satori01]

I wanted to see if we could get this thread started as the gensai thread indicated some intrest in this topic. In general I tend to think the native outsider traits benifts and drawbacks cancel out,(the immunity to "people spells" vs prot spells and banishment drawbacks).

I have ran both Tieflings and Aasimar as ecl 0 races and have generally had no problems. The only qualms I had were concerning the elemental resistance 5 for each race. While something of an impact at lower levels it never was particularly over powering .

Tieflings I felt were fine as is, Aasimar I assesed a -2 con penality, otherwise +1 ecl seems appropriate.

Gensai are a mixed bag in my book. The breathless abillity of the Air Gensai justifies a +1 ecl in my opinion. The rest of the Gensai are not particuliarly strong.

The strongest justification is the native outsider tag for +1 ecl.

 

[Madfox]

I have run thieflings and aasimar's at ECL +1 and I never run into problems either. In fact, the elemental resistances could be incredibly useful, though that might be because I ran a Planescape campaign. It is a real benefit to have acid 5 or fire 5 when traveling through a region that deals a certain amount of energy damage per round simply for being there. Sure, a cleric could cast endure elements, but now that spell slot is free for healing Anyway, if you allow some of the racial feats from the new FR species book then that ECL +1 also becomes a lot more acceptable.

As far as the genasi are concerned, I agree that they are a bit weak for +1 ECL. Though perhaps a bit strong for +0 ECL.

On a side note - native outsiders are not more or less effected by the various protection from alignment spells nor by spells like banishment like a none-outsider. The protection from alignment spells block out summoned creatures only and since the outsider is a native banishment does not work either. The benefits of being an outsider far outweights the downsides.

 

[thundershot]

I'm going to test run a new house rule soon. Giving characters the option to "pay off" their ECL during higher levels. Basically, since abilities that make them level adjusted are the norm after a few levels, the player can opt to allocate some XP toward whatever amount of XP the character started with (an ECL 2 character has 3000 xp). Once paid off, the ECL is gone, and they can act as a normal character. How is this balanced? Well, high ECL characters will take a LOT LONGER to pay off their LA and by that time, the rest of the characters will be of a similar power level ANYway. I'll let you know how it works.


Chris

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

*waiting for kreynolds to show up*

I have recently started a FR campaign in which one of the players in a fire genasi sorceror. We started at 3rd level.

He has certainly not shown to be overpowered, due in part to the fact that he has very low HP (-1 level and 1d4's) and that sorcerors are "a level behind" in spells, compared to the other major spellcasting classes (cleric, druid, wizard).

To give him a break, i'll probably install the same "buy your level back" system that thundershot speaks of.

Maitre D

 

[Staffan]

The thing is that there's a certain "span" of power in the various ECLs. Hobgoblins and aasimar are at the lower end of ECL +1, but they're definitely too good to be ECL 0 (on account of having net positive stat adjustments).

One thing I would probably consider if I was running a Planescape campaign or other campaign with lots of weirdnesses would be to beef up the regular races a bit and drop all non-HD based ECL adjustments by 1, so the planetouched would be on a level playing field with humans and elves.

 

[Murrdox]

Just to make a MINOR point here... compared to Genasi, Aasimar are on the HIGH end of a +1 ECL. They have 2 +2 stats, NO attribute penalties, some minor spell abilities, and elemental resistance.

Compared to the Genasi who have a +2 stat and a -2 stat... that's a large difference.

I've always thought that Aasimar needed a -2 stat to bring them down a bit into the norm of a +1 ECL. They're pretty much the most powerful +1 ECL race that there is.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I'd worry a bit about outsiders becoming far more common than they already are, with an ECL 0. They seem popular enough with ECL +1, even if it's not worth the level adjustment. The powers that Genasi, Aasimar, and Tieflings get are sexier than the human's plain old bonus feat and extra skill points. It would be more like 1E and 2E, where human PCs are uncommon, and everyone's a demihuman. Of course, for some campaigns, that's perfectly fine.

Also, as I pointed out in the other thread, there are some powerful feats restricted to native outsiders in Races of Faerun. Those should be changed if you lower the ECL, with much higher prerequisites.

 

[kreynolds]

Also, as I pointed out in the other thread, there are some powerful feats restricted to native outsiders in Races of Faerun. Those should be changed if you lower the ECL, with much higher prerequisites.

I agree compeletely. It's either that, or maybe take some of those feats and split them in half or something.

 

[kreynolds]

Just to make a MINOR point here... compared to Genasi, Aasimar are on the HIGH end of a +1 ECL.

Definately. Basically, from lowest to highest, I see them like this...genasi, tiefling, aasimar. There's no way the aasimar is more than +1, and I really don't believe that it equals a +1, though it's close. The tiefling lacks behind the aasimar by only a hair. However, the genasi are pitiful at +1. There's no way they even amount to half an ECL +1.

To address the weakness of the genasi, I've actually thought about beefing up their spell-like abilities just a little, like adding lesser fire orb once per day. A melee touch attack version of a fire variant of ray of frost. Stuff like that.

I was also considering slapping on the fire subtype and the ash rat's fire heal ability as well (minus the touching each other for healing part).

Anyway, those are just ideas I had. I'm really not all fired up just yet about solutions. Mostly, I'm just interested in acknowledgement of the problem. So far, you peeps are providing interesting insight. It's much appreciated.

 

[Pax]

Genasi have more non-attribute benefits (a level-scalar resistance, a special power or ability, etc).

That, IMO, balances against the Aasimar's better-than-net-0 attributes.

I do agree, Tieflign and Aasimar are a bit on the lowish side of ECL +1, but not drastically so -- definitely not enough so for me to consider them for ECL +0 status.