ECL of Planetouched races too High?

[Pax]

I think you'd be better off with a mechanism something like 'Cha is counted as X higher for spells with the fire descriptor'.

J

Or just give each Genasi a bonus feat akin to Bloodline of Fire, attuned for the proper element (Acid for the Earth Genasi, based on how the Elemental Savant works). *poof* they're really good within their elemental type, but still have charisma penalties.

 

[Technik4]

Intellectual Sorcerors

Not to beat a dead fish but, I didn't see any glaring problems with my solution. Fire Genasi sorcerors may use int instead of cha as their spell-casting ability.

Yes, it is kinda odd. But, I think it would be interesting to see sullen, unmagnetic, angry, bastard sorcerors, and the fire genasi (how does that pluralize?) seem like a good candidate.

If you really want to have fun, you could just have int drive their spell DCs, and have cha give bonus spells.

Alternately, with kreynolds system, bonus spells could be determined by negative cha, with int (or wis) as their DC spellcasting element.

The problem is some mechanics are conflicting each other.

Fire genasi are good sorcerors (in fact, better sorcerors than wizards).

Fire genasi have a -2 charisma.

Its still possible to play a fire genasi sorceror. But I think it would be better if Sorceror was their favored class, and they had more incentive to play one. Sort of like there is no lack of elven wizards, halfling rogues, half-orc barbarians, or dwarven fighters....

Of course, the gnomes have their own beef.

Technik

 

[Malacoda]

To veer away from how negative Charisma bonuses to spellcasting is a bad thing, I have been thinking of ways to make the gensai balanced. What I have been thinking is making the genasi a racial template rather than a race. Why can't there be dwarven earth genasi? If you add the genasi bonuses on top of another set of racial bonues, you could bring them up to par. And that may be too generous.

 

[Azul]

Lemme just clarify my thinking when I say that a +4 to an attribute should automatically make that race a +2 ECL.

Attribute bonuses are HUGE advantages. There are ways to get around the absense of to hit bonuses (more str) skills (more int) hit points (more con) and so on and so forth.

I pretty much look at the ECL balancing as such:

+0 ECL - max of +2 to an attribute. Must be balanced by at least a -2 elsewhere. Instead of an extra human feat, skill points, and multiclassing ability, minor abilities such as +2 to +4 skill bonuses, darkvision, and limited +1 saving throw modifiers may be added. A high bonus in one area should generally be negated in another area. (+1 saving throw bonus should not also allow a +4 skill bonus, max the race should have would be +2)

+1 ECL - max of +2 to 2 different attrbutes. May have higher saving throw or skill bonuses, up to +4 to +6. May have limited +2 saving throw bonuses. Minor spell-like abilities, such as cantrips and level 1-2 spells can be added. Level 1 and 2 abilities should be restricted to 1/day, cantrips generally 3/day. More powerful spell like abilities and skill bonuses should be balanced with the attribute bonuses and penalties.

+2 ECL - max of +4 to one attribute, and a net bonus of +6 attribute points maximum (ie +4 dex, +2 con and +2 str must have a -2 in another attribute). May have a minor global bonus to saves, or a major limited bonus to saves. Moderate abilties such as flight, Spell Resistance, enhanced movement, natural weapons, and natural armor are allowed. Natural armor and weapons should generally be restricted to +2 AC or D6 damage. User may have more spell like abilities, or a single more powerful spell like ability, generally up to level 4. More powerful spell-like abilities or natural abilities should be kept balanced by lowering attribute bonuses, saves, etc.

And so on and so forth. I think this system is at least somewhat similar to what Wizards uses when trying to keep the power levels of +ECL races at least somewhat similar.

What about orcs? +4 Str, -2 Int/Wis/Cha, Light Sensitivity and Darkvision 60'... oh, and ECL +0 according to WotC (see SS).

I've used orcs as ECL +0 races in two campaigns now and you know what, they are strong, but not ECL +1 worthy, let alone ECL +2 worthy. They are just an exaggerated version of the half-orc, and the light sensitvity helps reduce the impact of the additional strength.

They do make savage barbarians and fighters but tend to be absurdly vulnerably to mind-affecting magic, since they tend to avoid multiclassing to any class that requires brains (i.e. classes that give good Will saves).

I think even a +4 bonus to one ability score can be balanced on an ECL +0 creature, but following the orc as a model, it would have a -2 total in its ability modifiers and probably some other drawback (like light sensitivity) to boot.

 

[Ravellion]

(On giving Fire Genasi a CHA bonus) Not for me. Fire Genasi are just too angry.

Give Genasi a +2 bonus to CHA, but a -2 penalty to Bluff, Diplomacy and Perform.

That at least is a solution that not only works, but is elegant as well.

In fact, I think Tiefling should be handled somewhat like this as well.

(edit: malacoda beat me to it )