Epic D&D campaign (still recruiting)

Wilphe - If you plan on your followers being a Magic Item factory don't forget a couple things.
A: Followers with character levels count as 2 lvls higher (So an 8th lvl Sorceror, Wizard, or Cleric would take up the slot of a 10th lvl follower).
B: Item creation requires feats and XP, and you would have to run it all by the DM, figuring out how much XP each follower has.
C: Followers are people too, and are going to want some reason/compensation for supplying you with cheap gear at the expenditure of their life force(XP) and time.

I'm not planning on it; more a case of, I'm going to have these feats for story reasons, what might I use them for?

A:
I had thought that there were class restrictions on Followers, but I cannot see anything to that effect in either the DMG or the SRD. If you can find me a source please do

Mind you, DMG also seems to explicitly state that you can have more than one cohort and I thought one was the limit.

C:
While I am not going to push Diplomacy, he will have mex ranks in it, Skill Focus and high CHA. So the DC to convert someone from HELPFUL to FANATIC should be achievable


Most of that is moot anyway, as Leadership feats are exactly as powerful as the DM lets them be and is not the part of the build that needs work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What I am after is:
1) Is it going to better to take another 2 levels of Fighter to get Wpn Spec and an extra iterative attack

PrCs are out as they would all stop his Aura progression, and while could ask to adapt a Bard or Cleric PrC I don't want to creat a hassle

2) As low level wands are dirt cheep for an epic character, and the DCs look to be achievible via UMD - is that a viable option?
 

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Quarnabeet

Hobgoblin Ftr 2 / Marshall 27

S 18 + = +4
D 25 + 6 enchance = +10
C 25 + = +7
I 18 + = +4
W 15 + = +2
C 30 + 6 enhance = +13

+5 inherent to everything from tomes
+7 to CHA from level increases

Base BAB 14/9/4 +5 Epic
Melee +4 Str 23/18/13/
Ranged +10 29/24/19

F 13 + 7 Con + 5 Epic +4 Resist = 29
R 5 +10 Dex + 5 Epic + 4 Resist = 24
W 10 + 2 Wis + 5 Epic 4 Resist = 21

AC: 10 +10 Dex + 4 Deflection + 8 Armour + 5 Nat = 37

Hit Points: 8+2d10+27d8 + 203

Bluff 33
Diplomacy 33 +2 Bluff +2 K/NR + 2 SM +3 SFocus = 42
K/ Architecture + Engineering 5
K/ History 5
K/ Geographry 5
K/ History 5
K/ Noblity and Royalty 5
Intimidate 24 +2 Bluff
Sense Motive 33
Spot 33

Got 14 more to spend I think

Epic Items:
Rod of Besiegment
Rod of Fortification
Note to self: Nowhere does it say Siege Engines generated by these go away.
+7 Composite Longbow +4 STR
Ring of Adamant Law
+4 Deflection +4 Resistance
SR 25 v Chaotic Spells and Creatures
Blocks possession and mental influence
Chaotic Creatures to save v Will if hit in melee or Slow

Already consumed items:
6 x +5 tomes

Non-epic Items:

Order's Wrath +5 Axiomatic Ghost Touch Longsword

Ring of Regeneration, Freedom of Movement, Telekinesis, MindShielding, Sustenance and Feather Fall.
Which I think is 281 550 if I understand the rules for combining

Amulet of Natural Armour +5
Bag of Holding T IV
Bottle of Air
Carpet of Flying (Going for a vaugely Arabic/Turkich theme wth his background)
Cloak of Charisma +6
Daern's Instant Fortress
Decanter of Endless Water
Dust of Dryness
Dust of Tracelessness x 4
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Hat of Disguise
Hewards Handy Haversack
Quiver of Elhonna

Bracers of Armour +8 & Greater Archery 101,500?


Expendable items:
8 Wands of Vigor CL 1
2 Wands of CLW CL 1
Wand of Stoneskin
Wand of Restoration
Wand of Neutralise Poison

Ammunition:
100 arrows each of
+1 Human Bane
+1 Aberration Bane
+1 Evil Outsider Bane
+1 Dragon Bane
+1 Chaotic Outsider Bane



3 990 775 total ATM

Feats:
Skill Focu Diplomacy - Class
Leadership
Force of Personality (might ditch this as Ring of Adamant Law makes it unecessary)
Jack of All Trades
Improved Initative (Someone want to explain Knowledge Devotion please as that sounds a thematic fit?)
Improved Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
EWP: Musket (Story reasons, that's not his weapon)

Normal Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Epic Feats:
Superior Initative or Multiaura
Epic Leader
Legendry Commander
Widen Aura
Lasting Aura



Grant Move Action 7/day
Major Aura +5
 
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1) Weapon Specialization is just +2 damage per hit, with the relevant weapon. It doesn't suck, but I dunno if it's worth a 2 level dip all by itself. The extra iterative is likewise nice, but unless your to-hit bonus is very high, you'll probably only be hitting with the first couple of attacks anyway.

2) UMD with high Charisma and even just a CC rank or two is viable, sure...just be sure you're aware of the limitations of the stuff you're using. Wands are terrific for low spell level buffs, for example. I went this route with Omega, in fact. A simple 1st level spell (at caster level 15 for maxed effect) gives him a juicy +5 to hit for 15 rounds per charge. Very nice against critters with high Touch AC's.

What you'll find though is that most items are only useful for buffing and noncombat spells. This is because they're limited to Caster Level 20 without the Epic Feats, and SR tends to make CL20 spells very unhappy. It's also because most items have inherently low save DC's which cannot be increased easily.

But if you identify a hole in your character's defenses, a wand or scroll can be a useful thing to have on hand...
 

Well, at the moment he is doing 1d8+11; with whatever bonuses you get from the arrow.

+7 Composite Long Bow with +4 STR.

Bane weapon for whatever he is fighing will add +2d6 to that, and +2 arrows are not that expensive

At the moment the wand inventory looks like:
Vigor
CLW
Though the former will take ages in these PCs and either will be drained dry on probably one PC

Buffing:
Stoneskin
Shield

I do not know if Animal Series (Bull's,Bear's, Fox's) will be worthwhile at this level of play; nor if things like Mirror Image and Invisibility will be worth it given that the opposition probably has ways of neutralising them very easily
 

Allright first up, I have something I have to say to the thread:
I may not be the DM, but the thing I absolutely despise about Epic is when people turn it into an All-or-Nothing Rock-Paper-Scissors game.
Disjunction
Holy Word
Antimagic Field
Silence
Diplomacy(sigh)
Banish/Dismiss
Death Spells
"Save-Or" effects.
Immunities

It's my beliefe that things like this make the game LESS fun via their inclusion, because they completely negate whole encounters or character concepts.
DM: "OK, so the Epic elder fire elemental comes at you"
Player: "Stand back guys, I'm immune to fire and this guys physical can't beat my DR... NEXT"
DM: "ER.. ok.. The Elder titan comes around a corner and.."
Player: "I cast Disjunction to take out his defenses followed by a quicken deathspell. NEXT"
DM: "A magical anvil falls on you. You die."
Player: "Actually, my antimagic field stops the magic, and the falling anvil only deals a hundred damage. NEXT."
DM: "Your DM quits."
Player: "Actually, I have a contingent spell that..."


Now I like making an uber-powerful, twinked character as much as the next guy(Actually studies have shown that I like it more than most, but anyways..), but you'll note that the suggestions I give and the characters I make avoid things like these. It's far too easy to turn Epic into a case of "Initiative roll=win". If you want to keep the game fun, then both the players and the DM need to forge an air of what we like to call "Mutually Assured Disjunction"... wherin the DM won't use DEATH SPELL/DISJOIN/Etc on you unless you do it first or plan on doing it.

Hell, I could've easily made a caster who's Nigh-Indestructible due to dozens of CL 40+ Buffs, and could walk around slaughtering epic dragons... But the instant he gets disjoined, he's just another human and he dies b/c he put all his eggs into the magical buffs. The problem with that is that it's an 'all or nothing' concept. If the opponent doesn't have Disjunction, I win. If he does and he manages to get it cast, He wins.
Heck, I could make that one even more powerful by loading it down with Contingent Re-buffs and Tenacious Magic, but how is that fun for anybody other than the person playing "GOD"?


I also have some specific posts I wanted to respond to, but wanted to get this said first.

*EDIT: Also if you're worried about Badguys using InstantDeath on you, then I have one thing to say : If the DM WANTS your character to die, he will find a way. Nothing you buy/cast will stop him, he's the DM and it's his world. And if he doesn't actively WANT you dead(Which is the more likely scenario), then why would he send an encounter which has a 100% (Or near) kill factor? Things that CAN kill you are required, otherwise there's no challenge, but do you really expect your DM to be using CL-Buffed Holy words and Disjunction-Death spell combos?
 
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Yeah, low level healings are probably a waste. You'll get better value out of a higher level wand...or even a staff. Staff of Healing isn't too bad, and staves are nice because they scale with your CL and your casting attribute.

Stoneskin is a good buy, though if you expect to be using it a LOT, check out the epic ring that basically gives you constant Stoneskin. More expensive than a wand, but not outrageously so.

Shield is an excellent choice if you don't have one! Very scaleable, and it blocks an irritating mouse spell.

Animal buffs are normally superseded by items, because they give enhancement bonuses just like the items do.

Mirror Image is a big maybe. Blindsight defeats it. Tremorsense defeats it. True Sight defeats it. Not ALL monsters have those things, but a significant number of things do.

Invisisbility is much the same as Mirror Image, but probably better, if only because you'll SOMEtimes be interacting with folks who aren't the same level as you, and it gives you some noncombat options. :)

Jemal, I think it's fair for a player to recognize that his concept has a giant smoking "Kill Me Like This" sign on his back, and to prepare for it. Holy Word IS death on wheels for an Outsider of the Evil persuasion, and there's only a few ways to stop it. Given that this Marilith has lived this long, it's reasonable to assume she probably knows how to survive a Holy Word. :)
 


:p

----

I've noticed something odd about the Marilith. Their length from head to tail is 20ft, but their stated weight is 4000 lbs. That's 200 lbs/foot! And the art indicates the Marilith is slim, both her humanoid and serpent parts. Since demons are made of flesh and not lead or uranium that doesn't make sense. A 6ft human with the same BMI would weigh 1200 lbs and they wouldn't exactly look slim.
I think a weight of 700-1000 lbs would be more realistic, and still account for natural armour, heavy bones or whatnot.
DM, what do you think?
 
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Neph - You worry far too much about tryin to be immune to everything.
Relax and worry more about having FUN. That's how you create a good epic character. Don't think about all the thousand different ways you could Win or Loose with a single action, it's counterproductive to good storytelling, which is what Epic Campaigns are all about - An Epic Story.

RangerJohn - If you want a Fighter-mage, my suggestions would be to include any/all of the following:
Fighter. Sorc. Monk(you likely won't be wearing armour, and monk is awesome. Every Adventurer should have the ability to punch someone in the face without provoking an AoO). Eldritch Knight.
And from Complete Mage, my favourite Fighter-Mage class: Abjurant Champion.

And now for some quotes

But you can easily fix your Banishability with those manacles that inflict Dimensional Anchor on whoever wears them. Just put them on, and cut the chain. Now you have stylish wristbands that keep you firmly in this plane.
While I disagree that it's required, there are two things I wanted to say.
Mechanically, cutting the chain would destroy them b/c it's part of the magical Item.
Thematically, I doubt most DM's would have a problem with doing so and just calling them 'bracers'


I'm not planning on it; more a case of, I'm going to have these feats for story reasons, what might I use them for?
I Personally disagree with taking feats ONLY for backstory purposes. 99% of the time the same function and fluff can be gained simply with good storytelling. Especially in a setting like this where the whole "Dead for thousands of years" thing is a VERY good way of explaining why you USED to be an epic leader of men but don't have any followers with you know... They've all been dead for millenia.

A:
I had thought that there were class restrictions on Followers, but I cannot see anything to that effect in either the DMG or the SRD. If you can find me a source please do

*Paraphrased from the ELH*
Optional rule: Exceptional followers
Normally You can only attract members of the Warrior, Expert, or Commoner classes. Using this optional rule, Adept or Aristocrats count as followers two levels higher, any follwer with even a single level in a PC class counts as THREE levels higher, and a follower with any levels in a prestige class counts as FIVE levels higher.
/snip
It's under the Epic Leadership Section, and apparently I was underquoting originally. Your tenth lvl followers could be 7th lvl PC classes or 5th level with a PRC(If you could find any for which they meet the Requirements by then)
Mind you, DMG also seems to explicitly state that you can have more than one cohort and I thought one was the limit.
The references to Multiples are there so you can REPLACE a cohort who has died or otherwise left your services. I don't think you'll find many who read it as saying you can have any number of cohorts (And if they do, they're wrong. :p)
C:
While I am not going to push Diplomacy, he will have mex ranks in it, Skill Focus and high CHA. So the DC to convert someone from HELPFUL to FANATIC should be achievable
Not. Even. Saying. It.

What I am after is:
1) Is it going to better to take another 2 levels of Fighter to get Wpn Spec and an extra iterative attack
If you're going to be making attacks, Extra BAB is always useful, though as Shayuri pointed out, Weapon Spec isn't all that impressive.. Although it's still a USEFUL feat, and becomes more useful the more attacks you can make in a round.
PrCs are out as they would all stop his Aura progression, and while could ask to adapt a Bard or Cleric PrC I don't want to creat a hassle
Don't know much about the auras but why would a PrC stop his progression if a base class such as Fighter wouldn't? Do Auras specifically state that they progress with all base classes but not PrC's?
 

Still, I need some Healing so it's good advice. Which book is it in?
That would be the book of nine swords A.K.A. the tome of battle. You can also just get a power and the stance for 2 feats. Your initiator lvl for any power would be half your HD. So if you took the Crusader Strike power with the martial study feat, so if you hit with the power, you or an ally would heal 1d8+10 at 20HD.
 

Neph - Don't forget that size increase and Mass increase are not on a one to one scale. Mass jumps faster.
Look at halflings - An average 3' halfling weighs about 34 pounds. If you were to just double that you'd get a 6' tall person weight 68 pounds... Rediculously underweight. So the weight is multiplied by FOUR instead of just two, giving you 6' tall 136 pounds - A kinda skinny tall guy, but not rediculous.
This concept is shown again and again in spells that alter size (Enlarge/reduce person, Righteous might, Giant Size)

Now take into account that Mariliths aren't just 'big people', they're demonic half-snake women with 6 arms who are INCREDIBLY built (Natural 28 str/18 Con). They're masses of muscle, despite the fact that they may not look it.
 

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