TSR Example from the worst TSR adventure module(s) ever published

[the Jester]

Didn't Mearls have a hand in H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth? That's not all bad!

Hey, I'm running that (for 5e) right now, or at least an abandoned-dwarven-thanehold adaptation of it.

 

[pemerton]

Hey, I'm running that (for 5e) right now, or at least an abandoned-dwarven-thanehold adaptation of it.

In that case, I commend to you the modifications I made and linked to just a few posts upthread!

 

[pemerton]

I also have to suggest the HPE series as among the worst adventures ever published. While H2 and P2 were at least decent, they were major contributors to 4e's poor reception and terrible showcases for the edition's strengths. They didn't even follow the DMG's own advice.

Bruce was already on my "beware" list because of Bastion of Broken Souls, and Heart of Nightfang Spire.

<snip>

Of the bunch I believe Demon Queen's Enclave is probably the best because it does assume that there will be serious roleplaying considerations rather than just combat assumptions

<snip>

These adventures are better used as lose frameworks to play. I have heavily adapted most of them at one point or another for use in my campaign.

Linearity, repetition, and just being plain boring is what stands out about most of them.

I've used H2, P2 and E1 (for some value of "used").

As I mentioned upthread, in H2 I used three of four encounter areas more-or-less modified. I never used the Horned Hold, and didn't use the Seven-Pillared Hall framing device at all, or the Mages of Saurun (sp?).

In P2 I kept some of the main antagonists, but just completely ignored most of the random exploration/fighty stuff (with two exceptions: the fight with spiders on the entry bridge, which was fun, and the mind flayer/goblin fight in the first tower across the bridge). The PCs ended up befriending the crazy drow wizard and the male fighting school (the latter were recruited as a backup artillery squad), and the rest was done in a handful of key encounters - the first portal in the building, the second portal in the town square, the temple, the building with the gate to the other plane, and the other-planar stronghold (the latter was one single encounter, from memory - maybe two - and I dropped all the exploration stuff en route to it).

From E1 I used the poster map for the inside of Mal Arundak when the PCs fought Miska there, and adapted some of it traps as well for the set-up for that room; adapted some other traps from it to be the entry way to Blibdoolpoolp's home when the PCs teleported there from the Shrine of the Kuo-toa; used the Blackstar monster stats as the framework for Torog's shrivers in his Soul Abattoir; and I think that's about it. So much filler in that module!

I enjoyed Bastion of Broken Souls (which I adapted to my Oriental Adventures Rolemaster campaign). I didn't use the final dungeon in the Positive Material Plane, but I used the basic premises (stolen souls, a banished god able to advise the PCs with the Soul Totem, the night hag Queen of Dreams, the slaad agent of Demogorgon). But every point where the module mandated a fight I just ignored - so the PCs allied with the exiled god, got into his prison plane by persuading the angel gate guardian to let them kill her, persuaded the night hag to share her secrets, etc. It was much more interesting that way!

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I also have to suggest the HPE series as among the worst adventures ever published. While H2 and P2 were at least decent, they were major contributors to 4e's poor reception and terrible showcases for the edition's strengths. They didn't even follow the DMG's own advice.

I could not agree more. I frequently describe H1 as the best ad for Pathfinder that Paizo didn't have to pay for... and a number of times I have posted that, I have had immediate feedback from another poster on a range of boards that they decided to check out Pathfinder because WotC screwed the pooch so badly with H1. In a way, that's good otherwise they may have found H3 and decided to boycott WotC forever....

Each of them has to be looked at individually and assessed that way. All of them had some great ideas within, but were poorly executed, or not executed at all. Some of them have some of the most boring execution and linearity of all (Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress). After these adventures, I was so disappointed with Mike Mearls and Bruce Cordell, though Bruce was already on my "beware" list because of Bastion of Broken Souls, and Heart of Nightfang Spire. Which was really disappointing because Cordell was one of my favorite adventure writers with the Illithiad trilogy, and Sunless Citadel as part of his credits. (snip)

I have to agree. In the latter stages of 2E, Bruce Cordell's name on a product meant I had to buy it. Most of his stuff was so good (The Shattered Circle is one 2E adventure that is rarely mentioned but is simply brilliant, IMO). The Sunless Citadel was great, and then came the psionics adventure for Malhavoc Press which was utter garbage. I think that was the beginning of the end. That said, I am sure The Strange and Numenera suit him better as he seemed to always be more comfortable mixing genres, even in his novels (Stardeep has a Space Odyssey-like angry computer system, more or less). (And the less said about his novels the better. After all, naming your monk protagonist "Kane" is as bad as naming your wizard protagonist "Gandalf".)

(snip) Of the bunch I believe Demon Queen's Enclave is probably the best because it does assume that there will be serious roleplaying considerations rather than just combat assumptions, which is not surprising coming from Noonan and Sims.

These adventures are better used as lose frameworks to play. I have heavily adapted most of them at one point or another for use in my campaign.

Linearity, repetition, and just being plain boring is what stands out about most of them.

That last line sums those adventures up really well. I used to think they were so bad because the authors didn't grok 4E, but now I think they were just bad adventures regardless of the edition. 4E was rushed into production ahead of schedule; I suspect the adventures were too. It's a shame, though, because better adventures at the start would have, I strongly suspect, given 4E the popularity boost it needed. But driving people to Pathfinder with half-assed garbage? No wonder 4E failed.

Yep, I would agree whole-heartedly. Thunderspire, too, had a lot of potential for campaign play. Funny how those are tied together, too, isn't it?

Now if only the first adventures for 4e were more like Zeitgeist...

Yeah. 4e works better with fewer, but important and well designed, encounters. Much like ... well, Zeitgeist.

I think of the rest, H1, H3, and P1 are at least maybe salvageable. With work. H1 in particular starts out pretty well until you hit the actual Keep. P3 was a wreck. H3 needs some sort of civilization or town or something inside the pyramid and a better idea of what the bad guy is doing. P1 has a subtext of wildness vs. civilization that could have been better explored.

H1 needs a better dungeon, full stop. It's garbage. P3 is not worth trying to redeem. It would be better rewritten from scratch... as a completely different adventure. P1 is quite good and just needs a bit of tinkering around the edges. P3? Toss it on the scrap heap.

And forget everything about the Es except the basic ideas. They all need rewrites from people who are 1. good adventure designers and 2. grok 4E.

(snip) From E1 I used the poster map ... (snip)

Yep, the poster maps are rather useful. Me too.

 

[Shoe]

I have a solution: Let's write our own encounters!

14. The Winter Wolf. As the party enters the clearing, they see a pile of apples. Read the description below:



The apples have no secret compartments. As the party approaches the apples, they hear a howl. A local winter wolf (AC 5; MV 18"; HD 5+1; hp 27 each; #AT 1; Dmg 1-8 [bite]; SA Surprise on 1-4, cold breath; SD immune to cold) has been collecting all the apples in the forest in order to lure prey to the clearing. If anyone takes an apple or gets too close or avoids the apples, the wolf leaps out of the pile and attacks. Roll 1d6 to determine surprise: 1-2: the party is surprised, 3-3, nobody is surprised, 3-5 the party is surprised, 6 the apples are surprised. The wolf once drank a potion of sleep, but is awake now because it is not near a pavilion. It will attempt to use its cold breath on anyone near the apples, or anyone not near the apples. After two rounds of combat wererats (AC 6; MV 12"; HD 3+1; hp 16 each; #AT 1; Dmg 1-8 [sword]; SA Surprise on 1-4; SD Hit only by silver or +1 or better magic weapons) will leap out of the secret door. Roll 1d6 for the sleep spells target.

After the party kills the wolf, they can take the apples and the golden statue of the dragon as well.

This is LITERALLY the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. Kudos to you sir.

 

[innerdude]

Yay for the forest Oracle! Yay!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This thread is the Vecna of funny threads, undying and lethal.

 

[Chris Danielson]

Hmmm. Is this thread still active? Well, here goes . . .

As for worst modules (I never played anything beyond second edition), I remember Crystal Spheres from Spelljammer being really awful. The vampire planet, the system with one planet designated for each alignment, and also a vorpal sword as treasure, even though it was only an intermediate-level module, if I'm remembering it all correctly.

 

[RedSiegfried]

Dungeon Delve makes a better, more coherent 4e adventure than the entire HPE series.

Now, if only it had some apples.

 

[innerdude]

In the continuing adventures of the Forest Oracle . . . .

In the distance, the PCs hear the sounds of voices in the forest. When the party approaches they see two men, one clearly dressed as a fighter and the other as a rogue, having an argument.

The rogue [4 HD, 9 hp, -8 AC (leather), Attack +3 (dagger), dmg 1d4 + 1] waves his hands animatedly as he says, "I don't give a flying wererat's behind what you think, Bob, I'm going to use my bow in our next fight whether you like it or not!"

The fighter [4 HD, 16 hp, 9 AC (full plate) Attack +6 (short sword), dmg 1d6 + 3] shakes his head sadly and replies, "Then I guess you're doomed to be suboptimal forever, Pete."

If asked, Bob and Pete will reveal that they are acrobats---poor, lost, circus performers looking for a village nearby.

Through questioning Bob and Pete, the party may discover that they have a problem, which is that Pete cannot mathematically determine "his optimal DPR."

Three magical abacuses sit between the men, who ask the PCs if they are willing to help Pete out with his problem. If they can solve Pete's problem, the PCs can keep the abacuses and the pile of apples.

If the PCs refuse to help, Bob and Pete's T-Rex paladin friend [19 HD, 1 hp, -4 AC (natural), 1 Attack (bite) +15, Dmg 4d6] attacks from its hiding place in the woods. Roll surprise [1-2 the PCs are surprised, 2-4, Bob and Pete are surprised, 5-6, the forest is surprised]. When the paladin is reduced to less than 2 hit points but more than 0 hit points, it offers its flaming holy avenger +5 two-handed sword as a prize to the party.

"I really just wanted a katana anyway," the paladin states, as it shuffles off into the dungeon. "Come on, Bob and Pete!"