Excited for the future of the hobby

[Hussar]

But perhaps you hit on the crux of something. CRPGs do "all the work" for you. In the world of a CRPG (which I agree can be impressively deep and immersive), you don't have to visualize each sword swing, you don't have to imagine the color of the sky at dusk, etc. It's all there, sight and sound combined. But any way you slice it you're interaction with the world is limited to what the CRPG lets you do. To that end, a CRPG will never touch a TTRPG.

The obvious answer here is, "for you". Sure, I agree with everything you say.

OTOH, a CRPG will also never screw over my character because its girlfriend happens to be playing today. A CRPG will never throw a full bottle of coke across the table at another player because of something someone said. A CRPG will never introduce multiple Mary Sue characters to complete the quest for me (well, it MIGHT do that, but, only once ). A CRPG will never not be available for play. A CRPG won't come to the game on a Sunday morning so reeking of gamer funk that I have to leave the room frequently (ON A SUNDAY FREAKING MORNING! Learn to take a shower chick. Jeez). On and on and on.

There's more to the equation than simply playing the game. If I have a bad CRPG, I just shrug, and go out and buy a different one. The social issues around TTRPG's can make them very unappealing. Never mind the simple geographical issues. TTRPG's have never managed, in thirty years, to break out of suburbia. Those living in the country can't find groups and those living in cities have other things to do.

So, at the end of the day, it's not surprising computer games are putting a dent in gamer populations. They're putting a dent in EVERY entertainment's population.

 

[Pig Champion]

Are kids so different today that they only play CRPG's in preference to everything else?

Yes, very much so. By my judgement, on the release on the NES, I'm a clear 10-15 years younger. There is a psychological phenomena with in my generation (I can't remember the name) where kids feel so pressured by their parents and society to succeed that they become reclusive.

It started in Japan but has well and truely made it way, world wide by now. I know because I suffered from it for many years. Basically, the child or teenager in question will lock themselves up in their rooms and totally disconnect from the world and then immerse themselves in computer games at such an emotional level that it replaces their real life.

They form emotional connections to computer game characters rather than people. They become concerned with the state of computer worlds, rather than the real one etc etc

People my age have died from playing CRPG's for too long with out food or water and I'm not just talking about WoW.

It's also happening with movies like Avatar. People are becoming emotionally invested in things that aren't real at an increasingly rapid rate. CRPG's are at the forefront of the phenomena though.

This is an extreme but I'm just trying to put CRPG's role in today's youth culture in perspective for you.

Man, I was born in the wrong decade then I have seen that 'geek' seems to be getting more mainstream though and your assessment from your experiences is something I'm welcome to hear.

Well, I'm not sure how I feel about Black Rim Cokebottle glasses in Milan and comic book iconography saturating everyday life.

But Fantasy and DnD will be in for an explosion soon, kids growing up on LOTR and Harry Potter movies will see to that.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

It started in Japan but has well and truely made it way, world wide by now. I know because I suffered from it for many years. Basically, the child or teenager in question will lock themselves up in their rooms and totally disconnect from the world and then immerse themselves in computer games at such an emotional level that it replaces their real life.

They are called Hikikomori.

 

[tyrlaan]

There's more to the equation than simply playing the game. If I have a bad CRPG, I just shrug, and go out and buy a different one. The social issues around TTRPG's can make them very unappealing. Never mind the simple geographical issues. TTRPG's have never managed, in thirty years, to break out of suburbia. Those living in the country can't find groups and those living in cities have other things to do.

So, at the end of the day, it's not surprising computer games are putting a dent in gamer populations. They're putting a dent in EVERY entertainment's population.

This is a pretty jaded stance (daily power then I guess ).

You're basically saying that it's easier to "settle" for a CRPG experience over a TTRPG experience because of the potential social hazards of a TTRPG. I don't deny all of the negative scenarios you've outlined can happen. But on the other hand, you stated you agree with that all the things I outlined that a TTRPG does better than a CRPG (hence using the word settle above).

Sure it can be a challenge to find a good group sometimes, for various reasons. But it seems a bit drastic to give up on TTRPGs all together as a result, especially when you acknowledge that TTRPGs give you a, let's call it, richer experience. Why sacrifice your chance to experience a good TTRPG because of past challenges or risk of future ones?

I guess it comes down to risk vs. reward. I'm not necessarily convinced the risk factor is greater for CRPGs over TTRPGs or vice versa since many variables can tweak this for people (what they can afford, who they know, etc). Regarding reward, it's obvious I think the reward is greater for TTRPGs over CRPGs, and I'm pretty sure we're in agreement on that. And like it has been mentioned before, I don't see why one can't coexist with the other, which to me really dilutes any need to even worry about picking one over the other in the first place.

One final thing. Speaking for myself, when using the term TTRPGs, I mean an RPG in any of its various methods of interaction these days (in person, video conference, pbp, pbem, etc.) To that end, I'd disagree that TTRPGs are stuck in suburbia. If you mean TTRPGs to only be face-to-face gaming, then I'm with you.

 

[Raven Crowking]

He can't help himself. He's got to mutter and pick his scabs in every ing thread.


Mod Edit:
Folks, what we see here is an invocation of the language filter. It means the poster here could not control his tongue in a civil way, so he got bleeped. However, the existence of the filter does not mean you have a right to be a potty-mouth, because we can still tell you intend foul language, which is not allowed on the family-friendly EN World. Please do not stoop to use of such language on these boards. Thank you.

"Potty mouth" is the problem with this post?

 

[jbear]

It's a funny thing.

Part of me wants the hobby to grow while another part doesn't want my game marketed at 15 year olds. I think selfish grognardism is natural but ultimately not good for the hobby.

I'd say for the hobby to grow it's going to have to lose some old fans and that's what's happening right now. Those of us who remain will have to adapt.



Sadly I think pen-and-paper RPGs might never catch on enough with the younger generation to make them truly viable, and D&D (and its imitators) could well die a slow death.

Computer games are just too bright, flashy and convenient.

What a selfish statement. You already play and know the game and the wonder that awaits inside. You don't need the game marketed at you. You have a life time of resources to draw from already out there that you can adapt and tinker to your taste.

I'm sure people of your age thought as badly of you as you think of the younger generation now, and yet the world keeps on turning, nothing has collapsed yet, we're still okay.´

My four year old son already loves playing a simplified d20 fighting game I made up that we call 'gladiators'. He rolls up his own characters and names them and depending on the miniature he picks from the box he invents special powers they have. He also loves video games. And so do I. But a video game is not the same as physically getting together and playing a game whose only limit is ones imagination.

Things change. It would be more worrying if they didn't. So it's not your cup of tea? But you can still play the game that is to your taste. There is already so much stuff out there, for whatever previous edition you play, do you need more of it? Surely a with a PHB, a DMG and a MM you already have infinite paths into infinite worlds.

 

[Herschel]

Yes, very much so. By my judgement, on the release on the NES, I'm a clear 10-15 years younger. There is a psychological phenomena with in my generation (I can't remember the name) where kids feel so pressured by their parents and society to succeed that they become reclusive.

Don't kid yourself. You lazy, good-for-nothing, anti-social, plague rat whippersnappers can't hold a candle to the Greatest Gaming Generation. That's when men were real men, women were real women and Orcs were for killin', not playin'.

*Smart-Alec mode off*

 

[Hussar]

This is a pretty jaded stance (daily power then I guess ).

You're basically saying that it's easier to "settle" for a CRPG experience over a TTRPG experience because of the potential social hazards of a TTRPG. I don't deny all of the negative scenarios you've outlined can happen. But on the other hand, you stated you agree with that all the things I outlined that a TTRPG does better than a CRPG (hence using the word settle above).

Yup. People are lazy. Given the choice between good enough for no effort and great for lots of effort, the vast majority of people will choose good enough. Heck, how many movies have to come out that proves this?

Sure it can be a challenge to find a good group sometimes, for various reasons. But it seems a bit drastic to give up on TTRPGs all together as a result, especially when you acknowledge that TTRPGs give you a, let's call it, richer experience. Why sacrifice your chance to experience a good TTRPG because of past challenges or risk of future ones?

Because people have very little free time and wasting it on bad gaming just sucks. And, I'm of the opinion that there is far more bad gaming out there than good. I'm very lucky because I have two great groups, both of which play over Maptools. However, to get to those two great groups, I had to wade through OVER 100 players over a course of three or four years. Now, sheer bloodymindedness has gotten me to this point, but, I can totally see people not expending the effort.

I guess it comes down to risk vs. reward. I'm not necessarily convinced the risk factor is greater for CRPGs over TTRPGs or vice versa since many variables can tweak this for people (what they can afford, who they know, etc). Regarding reward, it's obvious I think the reward is greater for TTRPGs over CRPGs, and I'm pretty sure we're in agreement on that. And like it has been mentioned before, I don't see why one can't coexist with the other, which to me really dilutes any need to even worry about picking one over the other in the first place.

I pretty much agree with this. About the only issue is time. If someone is choosing computer games over gaming, that's one less person at the table. If you happen to live in an area with a dearth of gamers, that can be the difference between a group and lone wolfing.

One final thing. Speaking for myself, when using the term TTRPGs, I mean an RPG in any of its various methods of interaction these days (in person, video conference, pbp, pbem, etc.) To that end, I'd disagree that TTRPGs are stuck in suburbia. If you mean TTRPGs to only be face-to-face gaming, then I'm with you.

I'm a HUGE proponent of VTT programs. Virtual Tabletops are FANTASTIC. I'm the only gamer in my town. Without things like OpenRPG or Maptools, I would have had to give up gaming years ago. That would make me a seriously sad panda. But, VTT's are not easy to use, often have a pretty steep learning curve and are still no guarantee of being able to play.

I wish, wish, wish that the RPG producers would get together and promote VTT's. Right now it's pretty hit and miss. Pinnacle (Savage Worlds) produces lots of material directly for Maptools and I believe Fantasy Grounds. But, other than some fan based initiatives, there's little to no support for VTT's.

A real shame that, IMO.

 

[darjr]

The old school lives at the heart of almost all levels of the hobby, in different and even conflicting ways, grounding it in it's traditions and history. While the 800lb gorilla experiments, successfully in my book, Pathfinders success and the OGL has helped a thriving community of the previous editions gamers.

And each of those have taken a couple of different forms, that in their way, helps to push the hobby and keep it alive.

And that's just D&D.

Is it all according to how I'd have it? No, it'll never be, but I am encouraged for the future of the hobby.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

As do I. Although, I think you underestimate the attraction to being a "geek" in todays youth culture. Geekdom is very chic, very much hip at the moment.

I was so born before my time. Trust me, when I was in my teens Geekdom was the farthest thing from chic! I am a bit jealous of you, to be honest!

Ken