D&D (2024) Exhaustion

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I wonder if a few more sentences in the PHB about there being a bunch of optional rules the DM might pick for a given campaign would help with this part of the social interaction. (Apparently, for example, the wording around common and uncommon races in the PHB isn't "enough" for implying one shouldn't make and have their heart set on a character before even hearing the potential DMs pitch, for example. And of course, the potential DM shouldn't expect the current group of players to buy their pitch this time around.)
At what point does WotC have to continually hold the hand of every player who can't be bothered to read the rules, who then get into arguments with their DM because the DM is daring to include rules from the DMG in a game that they specifically are running?

Heck... I've seen posts here in all these threads with players making comments about these new rules they don't think work or make sense... only for someone to point out "Uh... this gets mentioned and referenced here." Even here people can't be bothered to read the rules! So why should WotC waste time, space, energy, and money adding more and more redundant mentions of rules all over the place just trying to baby-proof them for those people? If you can't be bothered to read the rules... then too bad when the DM "springs" something on you. That ain't the DM's problem, and it certainly isn't WotC's problem.
 

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
At what point does WotC have to continually hold the hand of every player who can't be bothered to read the rules, who then get into arguments with their DM because the DM is daring to include rules from the DMG in a game that they specifically are running?

Heck... I've seen posts here in all these threads with players making comments about these new rules they don't think work or make sense... only for someone to point out "Uh... this gets mentioned and referenced here." Even here people can't be bothered to read the rules! So why should WotC waste time, space, energy, and money adding more and more redundant mentions of rules all over the place just trying to baby-proof them for those people? If you can't be bothered to read the rules... then too bad when the DM "springs" something on you. That ain't the DM's problem, and it certainly isn't WotC's problem.
I think WotC just wants players to be happy since that way they will buy their books. Anything that could make that happen, including "holding their hand" at every opportunity, is on the table. I don't like it, but that's what I see.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
At what point does WotC have to continually hold the hand of every player who can't be bothered to read the rules, who then get into arguments with their DM because the DM is daring to include rules from the DMG in a game that they specifically are running?

Heck... I've seen posts here in all these threads with players making comments about these new rules they don't think work or make sense... only for someone to point out "Uh... this gets mentioned and referenced here." Even here people can't be bothered to read the rules! So why should WotC waste time, space, energy, and money adding more and more redundant mentions of rules all over the place just trying to baby-proof them for those people? If you can't be bothered to read the rules... then too bad when the DM "springs" something on you. That ain't the DM's problem, and it certainly isn't WotC's problem.
I do not think it is all about handholding. Wizards often do not make things easy. If you want to study up on the rules for hiding, it is often not enough to look at the definition of hiding or the hide action. There are interactions implied in the rules on invisibility, blindsight and so on that can modify the interpterion.
Add into that the often, subtle changes in these rules between editions. At this point I have the legacy of about 5 different version of D&D rattling about in my head.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
At what point does WotC have to continually hold the hand of every player who can't be bothered to read the rules, who then get into arguments with their DM because the DM is daring to include rules from the DMG in a game that they specifically are running?

Heck... I've seen posts here in all these threads with players making comments about these new rules they don't think work or make sense... only for someone to point out "Uh... this gets mentioned and referenced here." Even here people can't be bothered to read the rules! So why should WotC waste time, space, energy, and money adding more and more redundant mentions of rules all over the place just trying to baby-proof them for those people? If you can't be bothered to read the rules... then too bad when the DM "springs" something on you. That ain't the DM's problem, and it certainly isn't WotC's problem.
Enough that the only place it shows up isn't buried in the introduction?

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- second full paragraph on page 6 of the PHB

If the player misses that to get to the good stuff...

In Chapter 1, for example, when it runs through making a character, unless I missed it, it doesn't seem to imply at any point that the DM might have some restrictions on what races or classes are out there. It is all about the player choosing any options they want and "What’s important is that you come to the table with a character you’re excited to play."

It does note the DM might decide to have you begin at a higher level. It mentions that there is a standard array and the variant of point buy as options beyond the rolling, but leaves it entirely to the player if they roll or standard, and that they have a third choice of the point buy if the DM lets them have that as a third option. For backgrounds it explicitly says the DM might offer additional backgrounds or work with you on one, but never hints they might restrict them.

In Chapter Two, it doesn't mention that the DM might restrict what races are available - except that you should ask permission to play a Drow.

Chapter Three says the twelve classes "are found in almost every D&D world", but doesn't say how one knows if they are or not.

etc...

One extra sentence or tiny box to start each of those three chapters doesn't feel awful to me or like it's asking WotC to put in extraordinary effort.

Edit: Or I'd even take them putting some sort of emphasis around it in the introduction I guess, instead of it just sitting there as part of a wall of text.
 
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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
One extra sentence or tiny box to start each of those three chapters doesn't feel awful to me or like it's asking WotC to put in extraordinary effort.
I dunno... maybe I just think less of the overall playerbase I guess. If they can't be bothered to read the rulebook and the DM can't be bothered to tell their players the rules they are using before the game starts... WotC doesn't need to try and beg and plead for them to do so by running up flags every three pages saying "Read the rules please!!!" At some point, personal accountability must come into play.

But of course that's just my opinion... I could be wrong. :)
 

MarkB

Legend
Given the lack of exploration-based abilities in the new ranger, we might not be getting an exploration pillar at all mechanically.
On the other hand, the ranger does have a class feature that involves Exhaustion, the 11th-level Tireless feature which improves exhaustion recovery. That suggests that we might see some wider use of exhaustion.

With this new version, I could see exhaustion being inflicted as a spell effect - currently the only spell which inflicts exhaustion as a hostile effect is sickening radiance, and even then the effect goes away once the spell ends.
 

Wyckedemus

Explorer
I've been contemplating having spells like Revivify, Resurrection, Reincarnation, and True Resurrection gave the recipient a level of Exhaustion. Being killed and returned to life seems like a harrowing experience.
Agreed. Both Raise Dead and Resurrection say the following:

"Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks. Every time the target finishes a long rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it disappears."

This works exactly how the new "Exhaustion" rule works. They can be reworded to grant "4 levels of Exhaustion" and it does the same thing.

I also believe that if a character drops to 0 HP, they should get a level of exhaustion, which would impact their Death Saves too, as those would be d20 Tests. The more Yo-Yo you go, the worse off you get.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I also believe that if a character drops to 0 HP, they should get a level of exhaustion, which would impact their Death Saves too, as those would be d20 Tests. The more Yo-Yo you go, the worse off you get.
It would also be easy to put in official or house rule that for every death failure you take you suffer a level of exhaustion, in case you want to add in a little more pain.
 



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