Fighting With Spears

[Mouseferatu]

Yeah, that really does suck. It puts a hamper on my desire to go with it, honestly. I mean, making a stylistic choice is one thing, but having not many options /because/ you made that choice... ugh.

But, say I did go with the spear. Run with me for a second. Any suggestions for a build for a fighter? Is there /anything/ we can wring out of the idea? Maybe even a WotC book (not FR... we don't own any) that has a decent prestige class to work with? Or /anything/? World, throw me a bone here. I just want to be different...

Okay, ignoring all the options presented here, and going just by what's in WotC books, I'd recommend you consider the following for building a spear-fighter...

1) If your stats are high enough to allow for both, try to make sure you've got a good Dex as well as Strength (though your Strength is, of course, still primary). This gives you the advantage of a higher Initiative, allowing you to set the spear against charges more frequently. Also, it makes you better at thrown weapons, which means you might actually be able to take advantage of the fact that a spear is an effective thrown weapon.

2) Consider taking an Exotic Weapon Proficiency in the greatspear, from Complete Warrior. It's still a spear, but it does 2d6 damage, which means you're at least doing respectable damage, on par with a greatsword. Yeah, it costs you a feat--and frankly, I'm not sure it should, since it's no better than any number of martial weapons. But if you're a fighter, you've got plenty of feats, right?

Of course, the greatspear is a reach weapon, and that may not be what you want. Still, it's there...

I'm afraid I'm not sure what else to suggest, other than the obvious "fighter feats" (Weapon Focus, Power Attack, etc.) Maybe, if you're using a greatspear or a longspear, consider the Spring Attack feat chain.

There just really isn't a lot out there for spear-wielders.

Hmm... I think I see another Dragon article in my future...

 

[Mouseferatu]

Mouse: A shortspear is very specifically a one handed weapon.

Oh, I know. I've been referring to the standard spear throughout all of this.

 

[Spatula]

Halberds in the Civil war...hmmmm...

Plane Sailing, being in the UK, is probably not talking about the US Civil War.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But realize, I was speaking of a sword and a shield. It makes a big difference. And was it a true 'piercing only' spear, or was he also slashing with it? And were they recreating combat with or without armour?

Good questions - he was indeed slashing with the spear too, and the combat was recreated without armour. The spear should probably be considered the equivilant of a a guisarme or similar polearm I guess.

Your question demonstrates that cross-cultural anecdotes are particularly weak for strong illustrations of a point I think it still works as a weak illustration of a point though

Halberds in the Civil war...hmmmm...
Anyway, two big differences. Sword with no shield, and polearm not spear. Yes reach is very important. Much more important than 'weapon speed' or whatever. But being able to slash is a large 'improvement' over a spear, and having no shield to defend with...a large disadvantage.

English civil war - roundheads and cavaliers!

These same friends used to take part in a dark ages society too - typically they fought with spear and shield or axe and shield (this time with metal heads on the spears... there were some pretty bad injuries; thankfully all have left that society some time ago while still intact!). Spear and shield was the preferred technique by far because of the reach. Spear and shield as brilliant against sword and shield by using the "stab the foot" technique It was almost impossible for the sword wielder to draw close to the spear wielder (who only had about 3ft extra reach probably) because his shield couldn't reach low enough to protect his feet and he was in severe danger of being crippled!

I would agree BTW that shields are grossly underrated in D&D. In (God forbid) a real fight there is nothing I'd want more from a defensive point of view than a shield to protect me. It is interesting to see the importance of shields (even quite small ones) in current riot police tactics too.

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Yeah well, polearm wielders are deadly if you don't have two weapons. Personally, in a real fight, I'd prefer not to use a shield and a sword vs a polearm, my shieldarm would break too fast...

I've done many fights with two weapons against our quarterstaff dude... can't say I won too many till I got used to him... earned me many bruises.

 

[rrealm]

If someone charges a longspear wielder who has the Instant Ready feat...

What book is the feat Instant Ready in? Or was this an example of a house ruled feat? Thanks in advance.

 

[Balord]

How about this as a feat?

Shifting Grip
Prereq: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Glaive, Guisarme, Longspear, or Ranseur), Intelligence 13+

Once per round, at the beginning of your turn, you may shift your grip on your weapon of focus (glve, guis, lngspr, or rnseur), changing its function from a 10 foot reach weapon to a double weapon with 5 foot reach. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, striking with the regular "sharp" weapon head that deals the weapon's listed damage or with the blund end, dealing 1d6 bludgeoning damage (x2 crit). When using your weapon in this fashion, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon fighting. You can use either end as the primary weapon and the other end as the off hand weapon.
Shifting your grip is a free action that must be performed at the beginning of your turn. Can only be done once per round, and *every time you do so drops you back 2 pts in the initiative*. This feat can be taken multiple times, each time applying to a different weapon.

I think this would make reach weapons more attractive to some. At least you wouldn't always need to back off every time someone came within 5 feet of you. And realistically speaking, I don't see why you couldn't do this. Find a long pole or stick and try it. You'll see what I mean.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Complete Warrior has a few PrCs for spear-wielders, although none were designed specifically for spear-wielders. If you go the Great Spear route, then the Exotic Weapon Master PrC would expand your options a bit (for example, you could take the Trip option and learn to make trip attacks with your weapon). If you go with a throwable spear, there's the Master Thrower. Both these PrCs are more about expanding your combat options than becoming a pure combat monster. There's also the Kensai, which is a pretty cool PrC. AEG's WAR has a PrC called the Lancer, which specializes in pole arms, and is very nice for a Long Spear wielder.

Personally, I'd love to see a jungle warrior PrC (the King of the Wild in Masters of the Wild is NOT a jungle warrior), as well as a thunderer PrC (although there's a storm cleric PrC that can turn javelins into lightning weapons).

You might also consider the Psychic Warrior route, if you guys use psionics.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Initiative changing feats aren't a good idea.

 

[Mouseferatu]

What book is the feat Instant Ready in? Or was this an example of a house ruled feat? Thanks in advance.

House ruled. It's one of the things that vanished in my cryptic edits.