Fighting With Spears

[green slime]

Yep, except you aren't really likely in RL to chop through 1 inch of solid wood with a single swing of your sword, especially if the wood isn't firmly fixed. The best a swordsman can hope for is to swat the spear aside and move in before the spearwielder takes a step back. Even this isn't so easy.

 

[pyk]

"Art of War" - Machiavelli

He doesn't like the use of polearms for the front line of the army, but for the flanks, to stop cavalry charges, and for some extra attcks from the back lines. He says in large formations it's too easy for the swordsmen and shield bearers to get inside the spears and make with the havoc.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

"Art of War" - Machiavelli

He doesn't like the use of polearms for the front line of the army, but for the flanks, to stop cavalry charges, and for some extra attcks from the back lines. He says in large formations it's too easy for the swordsmen and shield bearers to get inside the spears and make with the havoc.

Well, given that Nicollo Machiavelli was a political official and diplomat rather than an actual millitary commander(so he was hardly speaking from first-hand experience ) throws some sand into that particular remark's gears, though it holds true for the disadvantages with very close formations, who's packed conditions leave the spearmen no space to wield them properly or even effectivly. On the other hand, a tightly packed spearman formation, especially if using shields (e.g. in the greek phalange mode) would be pretty effective in protectiing aganst sword wielding formations even close up. And gven room to maenouevre or wield a spear properly, the swordman would face worthy opposition.

The crux in the uber-effectiveness of swords in D&D lies in a cultural fixation and worship of the sword as the perfect close-combat weapon. Which against plate armour it didn't actually tend to be - where pickhammers or spiked maces stood out.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Unfortunately damage type is something that is simply too much trouble to model in detail. d20 tried to get around it with higher crit multipliers of the piercing weapons. It's a so-so solution from an accuracy standpoint but from a gaming standpoint only the truly anal really let it get in the way of their fun.

I note that the spear family is the favored weapon of Gruumsh, god of Orcs. I'm starting to get an idea for a couple of orc hunting parties. Orcs with Rapid Shot and shortspears for both melee and ranged, the regular spear weilders will know 2WF, and a couple of longspear wielders with Stand Still to make life interesting.

 

[UniversalMonster]

I recommend the spear to anyone restricted to using simple weapons.

Once my character is out of spells, just the reach of the longspear is at least a psychological deterrent to something tough closing in on me (vice closing in on the brawlers in my party who stay up front. (I live in deathly fear of rogues and melee attackers getting up close to me).

Nobody- even GM-controlled monsters sometimes- seem to like to absorb an Attack of Opportunity, and I'm pretty much guaranteed at least one in most circumstances if I'm attacked. And I can fight from a distance if we get to the point of ganging up on something and I'm forced into melee. I can help out by staying in the second rank.

If nothing else, there's usually that.

Although I have to say, my attacks of opportunity, when they do hit, usually only do about 3 points of damage. But for some players (and GMs) in tactical situations, the idea of the attack of opportunity is a good enough deterrent.

So the bonuses are really pretty good for both offensive and defensive tactics, and especially good for non-brawlers who would otherwise be hiding behind something like a dagger.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Yes, I think that would be a better way of handling it.

I tend to avoid making feats required for new combat manouvres, but rather use them to refine or extend existing manouvres. Setting a spear against a charge is normally a what, a standard action (basically readying in case you are charged). A feat that reduced that to a free action seems reasonable and a nice weapon-specific feat to boot.

Cheers

It might be simpler to make it a situation-specific AoO.

EDIT: Remainder of post removed. Don't mean to be cryptic, but I'll either replace it, or explain why, later. Some of you may be able to guess, though.

 

[Grayhawk]

...But I'm curious what the rest of you think.

Would someone with a Longspear get an AoO followed by the feat-granted attack when charged?

Personally, I feel that the situatin of being charged comes up so seldom that you don't need the Weapon Focus feats as a prereq to balance the feat.

I'd just let the prereq be BAB +1 and proficiency in the weapon used.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Would someone with a Longspear get an AoO followed by the feat-granted attack when charged?

Hmm. Hadn't thought about that, but I suppse he would. Otherwise he gains no advantage for having the feat. Of course, he still has to have Combat Reflexes in order to make two AoOs in a round.

Personally, I feel that the situatin of being charged comes up so seldom that you don't need the Weapon Focus feats as a prereq to balance the feat.

I'd just let the prereq be BAB +1 and proficiency in the weapon used.

Actually, that wasn't a balance-based decision; it just made the most sense to me, that someone would have to be particularly skilled with the weapon to do this. In other words, it was a flavor decision. That said, I'll definitely take it under consideration.

 

[Grayhawk]

Hmm. Hadn't thought about that, but I suppse he would. Otherwise he gains no advantage for having the feat. Of course, he still has to have Combat Reflexes in order to make two AoOs in a round.

He would get the benefit of a double damage attack from the feat, which I don't believe he should get on an AoO if he hadn't readied his weapon.

But I think I got the order of attacks wrong. He should get his feat-granted attack (for double damage) first, then his AoO as the opponent passes from the 10 feet to 5 feet range.

Now, should this AoO also be for double damage?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Now, should this AoO also be for double damage?

I don't think so. It is, as you correctly pointed out, just a normal AoO, not one granted by readying a weapon, or by the feat that mimics readying the weapon.

If someone charges a longspear wielder who has the Instant Ready feat, and assuming the longspear wielder has Combat Reflexes (since otherwise, he only gets one AoO per round), I believe the course of should be thus:

1) Foe charges.
2) Character gains AoO from Instant Ready, doing double damage against the charge; foe is at 10 feet at this point.
3) Foe moves 5 feet closer, continuing the charge.
4) Character gains AoO from foe passing through threatened area, doing normal damage, because it's a normal AoO.
5) Foe attacks.

Of course, if the attacker is using a lance or other reach weapon, steps 3 and 4 don't happen.