D&D (2024) Fireball is a C Tier Spell

[Horwath]

Gotcha. I generally stop using them after level 3ish.

I have used them but they just get annihilated.

Still isr them occasionally.

low level mooks should later be used only as ranged ambush troops and spaced out, so you never can catch more than 2 of them in a fireball.
that teach you at basic military training, do not hug each others behinds, that way a single hand grenade or a burst from a machine gun will not take out entire squad.

 

[GrimCo]

While after few levels they do drop down more easily, used in sufficient numbers, they can still be danger to the party. Think of classic zombie tropes. Zombie on it's own is not scary. It's mindless, slow, relatively easy to kill. 20 zombies coming from all sides slowly surrounding you, now that's scary. Cause you know they can overwhelm you by the sheer numbers. If you feel real nasty, throw in couple of specters coming out from ground.

 

[Horwath]

While after few levels they do drop down more easily, used in sufficient numbers, they can still be danger to the party. Think of classic zombie tropes. Zombie on it's own is not scary. It's mindless, slow, relatively easy to kill. 20 zombies coming from all sides slowly surrounding you, now that's scary. Cause you know they can overwhelm you by the sheer numbers. If you feel real nasty, throw in couple of specters coming out from ground.

yeah, zombies with lots of HPs can be used as melee in mass combat, for their XP budget they bring a lot of HPs to the battle.

 

[Zardnaar]

While after few levels they do drop down more easily, used in sufficient numbers, they can still be danger to the party. Think of classic zombie tropes. Zombie on it's own is not scary. It's mindless, slow, relatively easy to kill. 20 zombies coming from all sides slowly surrounding you, now that's scary. Cause you know they can overwhelm you by the sheer numbers. If you feel real nasty, throw in couple of specters coming out from ground.

Light Cleric in party sigh.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

But there should be a way to build a mage... maybe sorcerer, that is all about blowing things up with massive damage. Fireball and other AoE spells have been nerfed every single version since 2e, and it shows. People were multi-classing fighter+sorcerer I hear to double cast fireball (nerfed in 5.5e I hear)... but to me that's just not ideal anyway. There should be a straight forward mage that can do great damage if managed strategically... with the whole glass-cannon risk factor, perhaps at the cost of most control spells... but there needs to be a way.

I agree, but I’m happy to pass the role of dedicated magic damage dealer to one of the other full caster classes.

 

[GrimCo]

yeah, zombies with lots of HPs can be used as melee in mass combat, for their XP budget they bring a lot of HPs to the battle.

Other nastiness are goblin archers. Their shot-move-hide tactics in suitable terrain can be real PIA even for higher level parties. In forests or rocky terrain with places to hide behind and maneuver, very mean and dangerous, but easy to kill.

Light Cleric in party sigh.

Well, if they have one in the party, sure. Some encounters can be harder/easier depending on party composition.

In current campaign, we have custom monster- elven skirmisher (found homebrew 1/4 CR elf, then added ability to hide or dash as bonus action and 1d4 sneak attack). They are menace for party. They shoot from 150ft for 1d8+1d4+2 damage and then hide with +4 on stealth, or they shoot and dash. On the open field, they form firing line and start shooting at 600 feet (with disadvantage), then disperse when someone enters 150ft range. On the other hand, they have AC 14 and 13HP. Lv 9 party is going nuts every time they encounter them.

 

[FrogReaver]

Anyone have a monster hp by cr list? I’d like to see that translated into a % of hp lost to a fireball list.

 

[Willie the Duck]

This is such a weird take to me. Fireball still turns the tide of battle in many encounters I have run, and that hasn't changed with the revision. A ton of damage still does what you want, and can clear minions easily. Sure it falls off in a couple levels, but that's fine.

What sort of enemies you use?

Depends on the campaign, but I love using a half dozen CR 1/8 to CR 1 to give encounters some more depth. Zombies, Toughs, Shadows, Kuo-Toa, Pirates, Acolytes, Grung, Swarms of Stirges and the list goes on.

Gotcha. I generally stop using them after level 3ish.
I have used them but they just get annihilated.
Still isr them occasionally.

low level mooks should later be used only as ranged ambush troops and spaced out, so you never can catch more than 2 of them in a fireball.

Light Cleric in party sigh.

This is an interesting (set of) point(s). Fireball is low tier if you don't use the enemies it is best at (in part because it tends to take them out), if they use anti-fireball tactics, and if you have a character that can address that type of opponent with a class feature.

I mean, it's still not wrong -- if all these things are true about your campaign, then fireball will end up being a niche spell option at best (the actual thread topic). However, it does somewhat counteract the subtextual thread notion that fireball sucks if it sucks because things have been precautioned against it.

 

[Sulicius]

Gotcha. I generally stop using them after level 3ish.

I have used them but they just get annihilated.

Still isr them occasionally.

After level 3? But annihilating minions is what the game is all about!

I build encounters based on the situation. In tier 3, I don't even count the monsters in the XP budget. It's about creating a believable host. Just because the PC's are level 8, doesn't mean necromancers don't use zombies anymore.

 

[Horwath]

However, it does somewhat counteract the subtextual thread notion that fireball sucks if it sucks because things have been precautioned against it.

if a spell can be mostly countered by walking away from others and not spending any gold or class resource, then it's a highly situational spell.