Fireball/Lightning Bolt Abuse?

[Archer]

If you are going to make house rules its very bad form to apply them at any time after campaign creation. You can make a note that next time you start a campaign, this is how you want to do things and make sure that everyone is clear on the entire list of house rules before you start.

The further the house rule is from the standard rules, the worse it is to impose. You could say the world is now cloaked in a permanent anti-magic field but it would be a mighty hard sell unless the players have done something like kill the god of magic.

Does very bad form = shameful DMing? I'll leave that decision up to the reader.

 

[hong]

Hey, if you're gonna enforce real-life-like distance judgement with a grid for wizards, then you better do it for everyone else.

Did I say I wouldn't? Heck, the wizard probably has an easier time of it; Spellcraft is a class skill for him, and can be used in lots of situations besides, whereas nobody gets Spot. Nobody plus or minus a couple of classes, anyway.

 

[hong]

If you are going to make house rules its very bad form to apply them at any time after campaign creation.

A campaign is a living, dynamic thing.

 

[Archer]

As long as everyone agrees on the new house rule, its fine.

Forcing changes is still bad form, dynamic or not, but within the DM's power. DM's often forget the players always have the power to quit.

 

[kreynolds]

Either way, this entire thread is addressing a house rule in a Rules Thread, and I'm bored of it. Have fun with the rule guys.

P.S. I wasn't specifically addressing you with my previous post, Hong. I was addressing the DM community as a whole. It's all good.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

I think both sides have good arguments but according to the rules, you can decide exactly where your fireball will detonate (thus catching ennemies but not PC in melee with them). Just take a look at the fireball diagram p. 204. Mialee casts her fireball so that the spread will stop exactly in front of her.

However, I would agree to limit spellcaster's ability to judge distance so precisely. Fireball is like a grenade. You can spend your life studying the spread pattern of a grenade but no one in his right mind would throw one near his comrades (meleing with ennemies), hoping to catch the opponents only.

I don't think fighter types have as much opportunity to metagame when comes the time to judge distances. So applying a rule limiting the accuracy of distance judgement will not affect fighters as much as spell casters... Anyays, it is more often than not much easier to judge if you are at charging distance than to evaluate a 20-feet spread 400 feet away

In our group, we just ask the spell casters to be honest when they cast a spread spell. In crowded situation, we ask him to point an hex on the table without looking too closely. It gives a bit of randomness (you are usually able to have your fireball detonate where you want it, take or give 5 feet). Even the players would cringe if the wizard was about to cast a fireball so precisely it roasts ennemies that are meleeing with us without harming us.. And my barbarian would have a little discussion with the mage if he started to see fireball exploding just under his nose Likewise, my barbarian counting squares between him and his ennemies to choose the best tactic would not be looked kindly upon.

Moreover, I think the area of effect of a fireball/lightning bolt is intended as a limitation of some sort. You won't always be able to cast it because you won't aways have the room to do so. That is why there are spells like Flame arrow. Same level as fireball, about the same damage (8d6 of fire damage at 8th level) but targeting only one creature per bolt.

Just my 2 cp...

 

[Fenes]

Am I glad we use description and sometimes a rough sketch, not hexgrids - it is for all characters the same: Ask the DM if you can judge the distance, then act. Of course, as the DM don't pinpoint movements into 5' steps - I just say if somebody is in range or not. As far as fireballs go, we always played it with a skill or int check, even back in 2E, or a flat % chance to fry allies. My sorceress was responsible for quite some collateral damage, and now does not cast fireballs that frely anymore.

 

[Vaxalon]

Fireballs and lightning bolts are bread and butter for adventuring parties, and bright monsters will know this.

1> Hit them first. Your CR 9 9th level hobgoblin sorceror can cast LOTS of fireballs, and since the PC's are the only encounter he's likely ever to have, shoot them off like there's no tomorrow. Your average wiz or sorc can't handle getting hit by more than two fireballs.

2> Potions of fire resistance should be pretty common among the dungeon critter community.

3> At higher levels, a surprise wall of force is an excellent way to use a wiz's fireball against him - it's invisible, remember.

 

[Crothian]

One of my personal guidelines when determining if something in game is too powerful is to use it agianst the PCs. Let the bad guys do this, and see how it works. The above suggestions are really good, too. I really don't see this as a problem though.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

My houserule;

Let's assume a creature A that is on the edge of an area effect that requires a reflex save (such as fireball) and is engaged in melee with a creature B that is inside that area effect; Creature A is submited to the area effect but is considered to have improved evasion for this particular reflex save.

If creature A is on the edge of the area effect but isn't engaged to another creature inside the area of effect, creature A is safe from the blast.

If the area effect does not require a reflex save, a creature on the edge of the effect is safe, whether it is engaged in melee or not.

This houserule satisfies my suspension of disbelief, doesn't bog down gameplay and doesn't screw spellcasters too much since you can usually manage to avoid dealing much damage to your friends with simple precautions.