Fireball/Lightning Bolt Abuse?

['o Skoteinos]

...so, now the wizards cast the fireball so his friends are on the edge of the effect (thus gaining improved evasion) and the bad guys are included (without improved evasion). So, now you have a slight chance of doing half damage to your friends and the normal fireball effect against the bad guys...doesn't seem like an effective houserule to me...

 

[Ancalagon]

We have a similar houserule

Basicaly, is someone is at the edge, but outside the area of effect of a spell, but is in melee with someone inside the area of effect, there is a flat 50% chance that he is in the area (his arms are sticking in because of a sword trust or something). If he is in the area, he gets to save as normal. If not, he gets singed a bit but no actual damage. This cuts down the amount of time the wizard (on either sides) shoots a lightning bolt paralel to the battle line.

Ancalagon

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

So, now you have a slight chance of doing half damage to your friends and the normal fireball effect against the bad guys...doesn't seem like an effective houserule to me...

What do you mean? It does exactly what I wanted it to do.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

We have a similar houserule

Basicaly, is someone is at the edge, but outside the area of effect of a spell, but is in melee with someone inside the area of effect, there is a flat 50% chance that he is in the area (his arms are sticking in because of a sword trust or something). If he is in the area, he gets to save as normal. If not, he gets singed a bit but no actual damage. This cuts down the amount of time the wizard (on either sides) shoots a lightning bolt paralel to the battle line.

Ancalagon

It's nice.

But if you do it my way you'll get aproximately the same average effect on friendly targets with one less roll one time out of two.

 

[Gromm]

I ran into the same issue myself (to the point of people maximizing the areas of effect to hit the most enemies at a time- taking several minutes to chart it all out).
In the end I think the best way is to pick the intersection for radius's within a decent time frame. Dont allow for charting or the like.
9 times in 10 they can still drop the fireball at the right point and hit the orc in melee with the fighter, but it rarely matters (NPCs can do it too) and sometimes they'll make a mistake and catch another PC or less enemies than they originally thought.
Since most wizards (though not sorcs) have intellegence above and beyond what any of us posses, its not unreallistic to let them accurately judge distances. Beside they do it all day, they probably get pretty good at it.

 

[Petrosian]

Sigh...

regardless of the system used to determine if the character can gauge distances accurately at a glance (in time to decide his actions for the round) as long as it applies to everyonethe same it should be OK.

Whether the rule is "well thats what the grid is for" or "no premeasure" or "only a quick look" etc etc etc, it should apply equally to the rogue trying to figure out whether he is in range for a sneak shot, the fighter trying to figure if he can get to the enemy on a charge or end up 5'step/FRA bait out of range or for ANY spellcaster trying to decide if the enemy/friend is within short range for his spell or not.

The end result of anything other than "use the grid" will be a number of misfires (or missteps) for the PCs, hitting now and again. Might even hit the Dm now and again too.

All in all it seems a house rule that only serves to add random failure and not worth the trouble for me, but to each his own.

 

[Uller]

Here is what I do(it is simple and it applies to everyone, including NPCs):

No grid counting until after you've decided what you are going to do. You want to charge? You say "I charge" and start counting the grids to see if you make it. Whatever you've counted, you have already moved. Sure you can change your mind about charging, but if you change your mind after counting out 9 squares, you already moved 45'.

When you cast a spell like fireball, you point out your target, cast the spell and THEN we figure out your area of effect. You don't have to declare your entire turn..just your current action. If you want to move up to get in range and then shoot, you just say " move" then you move until you think you are in range. Now you say "I shoot". At that point, you count out the range. If you are out of range for whatever it is you want to do...tough. You still shoot.

This is more "real" in my opinion. I play paintball and I know roughly the effective range of my paintball gun. On a familliar field, I can easily judge whether or not I can reliably hit a target before I shoot. On unfamilliar terrain or in a pinch, I often have no idea or have to make a rough judgement call. I can't just call "time out!" and measure the distance and decide...I just have to shoot and hope for the best.

Now...a smart player can sit back during other players' turns and count out grid squares if he wants. I don't care. A player with that sort of foresight, I consider a good player(because he will be prepared when it is his turn) and is thus rewarded by being more accurate in his decisions.

 

[Cerubus Dark]

It's legal. Want to have some fun? Have an opposing mage cast an illusion that only the Sorcerer can see. The illusions shifts everyone a certain direction like 10 feet. Granted, you'll need to create a spell that does this, I don't know of any illusions that are made to only target one person.

A modified Charm Person would work wonders here. Your not "takeing control" of the mind in this case your telling him/her that the target is over x number of feet instead of where they really are.

Simple, yet effective

 

[Grundle]

A fireball is an area-effect spell that can nuke many baddies at the same time. If a spellcaster wants to "waste" such a powerful spell to harm just one or two foes with the edge of the spell's effect what's the problem?

Its completely within the rules.

Its not unbalancing.

And, after all, it IS magic - not alchemist's fire!

 

[apsuman]

back on the topic, i think

IIRC,

According to the rules, if an effect (fireball, etc.) covers half or more of the square, then all beings in the square are effected.

Given that, our Wiz/Sor here has a five foot window of opportunity here to drop the pellet.

So, if our wizard were fighting with a barbarian against an orc in an arena and our three subjects were in a straight line...

assume the sorcerer is in square zero, the barbarian in square 2 (10 feet in front of the sor), and the orc is in square 3 (5 feet in front of the barbarian, and 15 feet in front of the sorcerer).

on the sorcerer's initiative the fireball (20 foot radius, right?) must land between 32.51 feet and 37.50 feet in front of the caster to hit the orc's square (and thus the orc) and not get the barbarian.

I would say that the pellet moves so quickly (within the initiative of the caster) that barring the arrow slit/invisible barrier, it lands exactly where the casted wants it before anyone has the opportunity to move.

Also, with that 5 foot window of opportunity, I would say (again barring arrow slits or invisible barriers) that there is no roll neccessary to get the pellet to land there.


g!