Fireball still sucks, here's my fix

[thecasualoblivion]

Upping damage to 4d6+Int doesn't really fix Fireball. Fireball is a D&D Icon, and deserves to be a strong Wizard choice. Looking back on the history of Fireball, it was solely a damage dealer, so adding a bit of control like Fountain of Flame(new level 1 Wizard Daily, and far superior to Fireball) isn't exactly historically accurate. What was historically accurate for Fireball, especially with earlier editions(pre-3E) is casting Fireball a lot. Here is my fix:

Fireball

Daily * Arcane, Evocation, Fire, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 3 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in the burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d6+Intelligence modifier fire damage
Miss: Half damage
Effect: Before the end of the encounter, you can make this attack again as a Standard Action. If you do not use this attack again before the end of the encounter, this you regain the use of this power.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I don't think this would be a good option as you basically are saying 'choose fireball and use a daily in every encounter.. and twice in the boss fight'

Why was Fireball the iconic power in previous editions? not because everyone wanted to play Tim {the sorcerer}... but because it was the highest damaging spell available.

... upping the damage to meet previous expectations pushes it into the Daily territory while going for more frequent drops the damage...


What I miss is the huge, slightly uncontrollable nature of of the blast[/b], so perhaps add the Force descriptor and Push 1 {from the center of the fireball of course}

That keeps the spell as usable for much longer as it will get past most resistances and has a bit of a controller aspect.

 

[El Coro]

I like the idea of making fireball different, but screwmaster is right - that reusability is just too much.

The coolest thing about fireball was always the massive "holy cow" aspect of it, to me anyways. here's my take on that, changing your reusable effect to something else:

Fireball

Daily * Arcane, Evocation, Fire, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 3 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in the burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d6+Intelligence modifier fire damage.
Miss: Half damage
Effect: Each creature in the burst takes 5/10/15 ongoing damage and is pushed 2 squares from the center of the burst. If the creature ends adjacent to any other creature that wasn't originally hit by the fireball, that adjacent creature takes 5/10/15 ongoing damage.

The ongoing is per tier, and the wording could be better. But it keeps that crazy "it can hurt anyone" idea of a big flaming, out of control ball.

 

[Soel]

Been wanting to post my fix, so i hope no one minds if I do so here...

Fireball - area burst 5 in 20; 4d6 + int mod + og5 fire, miss - 1/2 dmg and knocked prone

My Delayed Blast Fireball...

lvl 9 daily - area burst 3 in 10; creates zone until end of encounter - free action to detonate, those in zone when detonated are attacked, hit - 6d6 + int mod + og 10 fire and knocked prone; miss - 1/2 dmg and knocked prone.

 

[BobTheNob]

I guess Im the only guy who thinks an area burst burst 3 within 20 with a half damage on miss is just fine for a 4d6 damage ability and level 5.

Our party mage loves this spell in its current form, not because it does lots of damage, but because it can hit so many targets. Hes a bloodmage so he can pump it...

 

[keterys]

I actually really like the daily <-> encounter flexibility option, though I slightly prefer Swordmage's Decree's... elegance:

Minor Action Close blast 3
Target: Each enemy in blast
Effect: The target is marked by your Swordmage Aegis power. Marking the target does not remove the mark on another target already affected by your Swordmage Aegis. If you mark only one target with this power, you do not expend the power but cannot use it again during this encounter.

At any rate, honestly I think the real fix for Fireball is to make it an encounter power and be done... take Fire Burst at level 7, bump it to burst 3 and half damage on miss to match the new encounter design, and frankly it's fine as Fireball. A lot of people would still take something more controllery, but that's not bad.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My original fix to fireball was just to add Effect: Ongoing 5 fire to it.

This means that it can function properly in its role as a minion killer, and adds an average of just under 10 damage to its targets.

I like the idea of the thing I heard of (dragon pyromancer?) which turns any fire blast or burst spell into a zone doing a few points damage, but that was too specific for me. The above fix makes it as good as stinking cloud at killing minions, and that's what I want to see.

Cheers

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I agree that fireball lost some of it's charm in 4e, but it never pushed people arround or set things on fire before... it just got more dangerous.

My solution:
Add a Heroic feat "Improved fireball" that adds a d6 per tier to damage.
Add a Paragon feat "Enhanced fireball" that adds a d6 per tier to damage.
Add an Epic feat "Master fireball" that adds a d6 per tier to damage.

If you do all 3, the fireball caps out at a very desent 13d6+int at epic tier, bringing back some of its luster, but not making it game-breakingly powerful (in theory).

 

[SkullThrone]

I agree that fireball is Iconic, but I just think 4e is more balanced than previous additions, and arbitrarily increasing one power because of its name seems a bit unfair. I do like Lord Xtheth's ideas where if the Wizards wants to they can sacrifice other Feats to increase its power.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but in 1st edition we played with volumetric spell effects, so a Fireball was a 20' radius sphere. Well, typically it goes off at ground level where the half that was undergound need to go somewhere, so it effectively made it a 50' diameter effect...Though the best effect was used in a cave 20 in diameter with a 5x10 hallway leading into it...the rogue recon'd the room spotting Trolls. The mage throw the fireball from the last bend to the room, and not only did the mage get cooked, but so did the party that was 30 feet back from the Wizard even after the hallway widened...somehow it was fun to stop play and pull out calculator to figure out these effect...half the time knowing he'd be caught in the blast anyway the Wizard would just drop it at his feet...hehe

 

[Arlough]

My Delayed Blast Fireball...

lvl 9 daily - area burst 3 in 10; creates zone until end of encounter - free action to detonate, those in zone when detonated are attacked, hit - 6d6 + int mod + og 10 fire and knocked prone; miss - 1/2 dmg and knocked prone.

I really like this. I only see one potential flaw, and that is "zone". If I am recalling correctly, zones can be perceived by all. This may not be a problem, of course, because it would give fireball a much better controller aspect. But also there are things, like the Staff of the Architect (AV1) that can make zones get out of control.

With a +3 Staff of the Architect (Architect's Staff ?) I think you could effectively create a fireball that was area burst 6 in 10 for huge damage + ongoing.

I am at work, though, and don't have my books with me, so I may be wrong on this. Can anyone else corroborate this for me?