D&D 5E Fixing Eldritch Blast

[UngeheuerLich]

I think range justifies going down from d12 to d10. Or reducong the number of foes. The melee cantrip does do d12 actually.

 

[schnee]

I think range justifies going down from d12 to d10. Or reducong the number of foes. The melee cantrip does do d12 actually.

Yeah, backing this up.

Poison Spray = very short range, d12
Fire Bolt = long range, d10
Guiding Bolt = long range, d10
Produce Flame = short range, light w/ duration = d8
Thorn Whip = melee and ranged, forced movement = d6

It seems clear to me they consider each 'rider' as a reason to take the dice down by a step.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Thanks for the maths. I will always leave the maths for someone else, but I think it seems OK at the lower levels especially as Bards get no other combat cantrip bar thunderclap which is kind of too dangerous to use up close.

so.......Close burst 2 it actually is then?

Note that the example used was a monster with a lot of attacks. Against an enemy with a single more damaging attack, the maths will show it performing much better.

 

[mellored]

The darkness + devil's sight tactic seems to be best on paper only. In practice, it's highly impractical unless you're running a solo campaign or, at best, two players. And that's because the darkness messes with all the other players s much as it messes with the foes.

Not seeing your target means disavantage. Target not seeing you means an advantage. Together they cancels out and everyone just makes normal attacks, irrelevent of where the darkness is. A fighter in the darkness will hit and be hit as normal.

So yes, it does work in most groups. Except with rogues, since it will stop sneak attack.


The big downside is that it takes an action to cast, meaning you miss a turn, and it will take several to make up the difference. So it's only good to cast pre-battle. Otherwise, use hex.

 

[Mistwell]

Not seeing your target means disavantage. Target not seeing you means an advantage. Together they cancels out and everyone just makes normal attacks, irrelevent of where the darkness is. A fighter in the darkness will hit and be hit as normal.

So yes, it does work in most groups. Except with rogues, since it will stop sneak attack.


The big downside is that it takes an action to cast, meaning you miss a turn, and it will take several to make up the difference. So it's only good to cast pre-battle. Otherwise, use hex.

That's not quite how it works. If you cannot see your foe, you have to guess where they are at. If you guess wrong, it doesn't matter if you would have hit them - you miss. I don't think OAs are triggered either. And what's the archer going to do, blindly shoot at a spot? What if it's your ally? And then all those spells which say, "foe you see" or "ally you see". It's a completely different game if the battlefield is blind except for one guy. Everyone is hitting spaces with nobody in them much of the time.

 

[neogod22]

Not seeing your target means disavantage. Target not seeing you means an advantage. Together they cancels out and everyone just makes normal attacks, irrelevent of where the darkness is. A fighter in the darkness will hit and be hit as normal.

So yes, it does work in most groups. Except with rogues, since it will stop sneak attack.


The big downside is that it takes an action to cast, meaning you miss a turn, and it will take several to make up the difference. So it's only good to cast pre-battle. Otherwise, use hex.

As a DM I would rule it as disadvantage. You can't get advantage to cancel it out because you can't see them. Not only that but upon entering the darkness, it becomes difficult terrain and I will move you in random directions due to the disorienting nature of the terrain, and may even make your attack a random square. Just because players don't know how to role play.

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[mellored]

That's not quite how it works. If you cannot see your foe, you have to guess where they are at. If you guess wrong, it doesn't matter if you would have hit them - you miss. I don't think OAs are triggered either. And what's the archer going to do, blindly shoot at a spot? What if it's your ally? And then all those spells which say, "foe you see" or "ally you see". It's a completely different game if the battlefield is blind except for one guy. Everyone is hitting spaces with nobody in them much of the time.

You only need to guess the space if the enemy spend an action to hide. Otherwise you know where everyone is.

So yes, the archer can shoot at enemies in the darkness, no guessing, no disavantage, and no advantage. Just a normal d20 roll.


You are correct about OA's and a few spells, but there's no reason you can't use that to your advantage. The warlock should cast darkness on themselves, or a rock, and should move it around to help the party. Move the darkness towards the archer so he can back away without an OA, move away from the fighter so he can threaten with an OA. The wizard can step out, cast hold person, and step back in the darkness for protection against the enemies spell.

 

[mellored]

As a DM I would rule it as disadvantage. You can't get advantage to cancel it out because you can't see them. Not only that but upon entering the darkness, it becomes difficult terrain and I will move you in random directions due to the disorienting nature of the terrain, and may even make your attack a random square. Just because players don't know how to role play.

The rules as written...
"When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll."
"When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it."
"If multiple situations affect a roll and each one grants advantage or im poses disadvantage on it, you don’t roll more than one additional d20."


Of course, you can play as you wish.

 

[Mistwell]

You only need to guess the space if the enemy spend an action to hide. Otherwise you know where everyone is.

I disagree. You have full concealment. To target you, someone must guess what space you are in.

So yes, the archer can shoot at enemies in the darkness, no guessing, no disavantage, and no advantage. Just a normal d20 roll.

You must have a target. They have no target. It requires seeing the foe to know exactly where to shoot. If you cannot see them and only hear them "in that direction, somewhat" that's going to require the player to guess where to shoot. I know of zero DMs who would rule otherwise. It's pretty silly to claim you know where everything is in darkness. I mean...it's darkness. You know darkness. It's not a magical world concept - you KNOW the physics of this and you cannot know where everyone is, in complete darkness.

You are correct about OA's and a few spells, but there's no reason you can't use that to your advantage. The warlock should cast darkness on themselves, or a rock, and should move it around to help the party. Move the darkness towards the archer so he can back away without an OA, move away from the fighter so he can threaten with an OA. The wizard can step out, cast hold person, and step back in the darkness for protection against the enemies spell.

Let me ask you, have you ever played with it at the table? I mentioned it's something that only works on paper but not well in practice for a reason. It causes absolute chaos. The rest of the players at the table might tolerate it for a couple of combats, but not long term. It's simply not a tactic that works well with others. It puts the caster basically in control of most of the battlefield, for friend and foe, without much choice for the rest of the players.

 

[Ristamar]

I disagree. You have full concealment. To target you, someone must guess what space you are in.

I believe mellored is correct in this case. For example, invisible creatures (full concealment) can be targeted if they are not hidden per RAW.

For the sake of discussion, though, and given that not every group plays with minis on a grid, how do you propose the guess-the-space mechanic be handled by the "Theater of the Mind" folks?