D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?

[FrogReaver]

In that situation only the CME part applies?

Yes.

 

[Zardnaar]

Chose the damage types each attack.

Gotcha.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes.

So sonething like 8d6 damage with a 6th level soell slot.

Much higher I think there's just better spells. Any soellcaster can easily get Eldritch Blast these days via origin feat and key it off primary caster stat?

 

[FrogReaver]

So sonething like 8d6 damage with a 6th level soell slot.

If they are immune to fire it would be more like 6d8 x 3 = 81 for a 6th level slot on cme and a 2nd level slot on scorching ray. Or 135 with a 5th level scorching ray.

Much higher I think there's just better spells. Any soellcaster can easily get Eldritch Blast these days via origin feat and key it off primary caster stat?

No. Cannot take warlock spells with magic initiate in 2024. Must be cleric Druid or wizard list.

One can dip warlock for eb, but agonizing blast has a level 2 warlock prerequisite.

 

[Zardnaar]

If they are immune to fire it would be more like 6d8 x 3 = 81 for a 6th level slot on cme and a 2nd level slot on scorching ray. Or 135 with a 5th level scorching ray.

No. Cannot take warlock spells with magic initiate in 2024. Must be cleric Druid or wizard list.

One can dip warlock for eb, but agonizing blast has a level 2 warlock prerequisite.

Ah so that eliminates most abuses.

The remaining ones really involve multiple high level slots so you theoretically can nova off but at those level elemental resistances are common, AC is high and things have buckets of hit points.

And we haven't seen the new monsters yet.

How much damage is an equivalent level hand crossbows expert potentially doing say level 11 or 12 vs this. Or GWM good build?

 

[mellored]

Ah so that eliminates most abuses.

The remaining ones really involve multiple high level slots so you theoretically can nova off but at those level elemental resistances are common, AC is high and things have buckets of hit points.

I haven't seen any creature resistant to all 4 damage types (including bludgeoning).

And we haven't seen the new monsters yet.

Very true.

We know they will have reactions instead of legendary actions. And I expect a few will trigger on hit instead of at the end of the turn.

But all classes will have to contend with that.

How much damage is an equivalent level hand crossbows expert potentially doing say level 11 or 12 vs this. Or GWM good build?

Ranged damage is nerfed.
Two weapon is buffed to be about the same as 2-handed.
2-handed is about the same as 2014.

But a level 11 monk is easiest to calculate.
(1d10+5) * 5 = 52.5 * accuracy.

Valor Bard 10/warlock 1, using a d10 weapon and pact of the blade because i want easy math.
(1d10+4d8) * 4 = 94 * accuracy
*assuming you pre-cast CME.

Wizard 11, using Scorching Ray.
(2d6 + 6d8) * 6 = 204 *accuracy
*but that's your highest level slots.

**Arcane Eye is level 4, so I feel pre-casting CME is justified most of the time.

 

[Zardnaar]

I haven't seen any creature resistant to all 4 damage types (including bludgeoning).

Very true.

We know they will have reactions instead of legendary actions. And I expect a few will trigger on hit instead of at the end of the turn.

But all classes will have to contend with that.

Ranged damage is nerfed.
Two weapon is buffed to be about the same as 2-handed.
2-handed is about the same as 2014.

But a level 11 monk is easiest to calculate.
(1d10+5) * 5 = 52.5 * accuracy.

Valor Bard 10/warlock 1, using a d10 weapon and pact of the blade because i want easy math.
(1d10+4d8) * 4 = 94 * accuracy
*assuming you pre-cast CME.

Wizard 11, using Scorching Ray.
(2d6 + 6d8) * 6 = 204 *accuracy
*but that's your highest level slots.

**Arcane Eye is level 4, so I feel pre-casting CME is justified most of the time.

Ball park figures ahandcrossbow is doing 1d6+5+4 sharpshooter. Should probably at least be +1 so say 1d6+10.

Action surge (wizards going nova), off hand 7 attacks. 91 damage ballpark.

But a lot more reliable and repeatable.

If you're blowing a level 5 and 6 slot to do it and your damage is going to drop rapidly as you run out of higher level spell slots fast to upcast scorching ray.

And damage falls off a cliff vs fire resistance or immune aka in of the most commonly resisted attacks.

To really abuse it you need metamagic and/or Warlock. And that's going to be a terrible MC combo in a real game.

War caster or resilient con is practically required possibly spell sniper due to short range and firing through your allies.

It's rapidly adding up to a very situational thing. Outside scorching ray it's not even that good. And direct damage spells often suck in 5E due to hit point bloat. If you're not 3.5 mode ot looks cute but 5E critters have double or triple the HP.

My spellcaster powergamers have mostly stopped trying to inflict lots of damage. They'll drop a fireball when required but they're really better off doing something else or buffing the martials.

 

[mellored]

Ball park figures ahandcrossbow is doing 1d6+5+4 sharpshooter. Should probably at least be +1 so say 1d6+10.

Sharpshooter doesn't add any damage.

7 attacks * 1d6+5 = 59.5

And damage falls off a cliff vs fire resistance or immune aka in of the most commonly resisted attacks.

I wouldn't say that. Even if they are fire immune.
(0 + 6d8) * 6 rays = 162

To really abuse it you need metamagic and/or Warlock. And that's going to be a terrible MC combo in a real game.

Or just go up a few more levels. Thing start to break around level 15 IMO.

Not that bard/warlock is a bad MC.

War caster or resilient con is practically required possibly spell sniper due to short range and firing through your allies.

Those are the basic fests most casters take.

It's rapidly adding up to a very situational thing. Outside scorching ray it's not even that good.

Eldritch Knight multiclass could do pretty well with it. 7 attacks with a hand crossbow is a good multipler.

But yes, you also need a bunch of attacks.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sharpshooter doesn't add any damage.

7 attacks * 1d6+5 = 59.5

I wouldn't say that. Even if they are fire immune.
(0 + 6d8) * 6 rays = 162

Or just go up a few more levels. Thing start to break around level 15 IMO.

Not that bard/warlock is a bad MC.

Those are the basic fests most casters take.

Eldritch Knight multiclass could do pretty well with it. 7 attacks with a hand crossbow is a good multipler.

But yes, you also need a bunch of attacks.

What level lol?

From memory they get lvl 3 spells at 15.

 

[ECMO3]

Teamwork is not situational in any game I've played.

You have not played a lot of D&D then. Which is apprant because you do not understand basic rules.

Teamwork is very situational and party dependant. Not a little bit situationa VERY SITUATIONAL, especially when it comes to teamwork leveraging other characters abilities.

No risk if you saw the destination.

This is untrue. You don't understand the rules or have not read the spell.

There is a 24% chance of spell failure if you can see the destination when you cast the spell.

This is on page 331-332 of the PHB .... or are we now for some reason fighting inside a teleportation circle?

It's winning every fight (except Tarrasque).

but only one per turn.

You attack, she moves.
you walk 30' and kill her.
She can't take another reaction.

You can't move in the middle of a spell. You can't cast Eldritch blast and then decide to move between the first ray and the second ray. This is covered on page 25 of the PHB.

Yes, you can keep attacking him from where you are standing when she teleports, but you lose your 12d8 bonus to those attacks because he is more than 15 feet away.

You precast a 9th level spell to get 12d8 damage on one attack - that is how the rules work.

Also she can only use this once per turn, but if you have 2 PCs like you said, that is on every single turn of combat because there are only 3 turns in a round.

it's not 12d8.
It's 12d8 per attack.

And she teleports away on the FIRST ATTACK, and if that was a spell (which all your huge damage examples are), you can't move and then attack again because you cast the spell where you are standing.

If you want to fix CME to be once per turn, then sure. That will solve this issue.

It is not once per turn, but if you are using a spell to get those multiple attacks every single enemy needs to be within 15 feet for every attack and you can not move between them

Dead creatures do not get legendary actions.

Dead creatures do not get legendary actions.

And he regeneration is at the start of his turn. So that won't give him any either. Though he might get one turn in, depending on initiative.


Dead creatures do not get legendary actions.

Dead creatures do not get legendary actions.

The Legendary actions happen before their turn.

Before we discuss this any more polease provide anything suggesting that they will not get legendary actions before their turn.

Your entire argument hinges on this fallacy. Three times I have provided the page numbers that say otherwise and you have provided a link, which if you read it said otherwise.