Flame Blade abuse/legality?

[Hypersmurf]

In any case the language seems to indicate that the spell only works for the caster.

That has nothing to do with whether you can have two running or not.

Even with Range:Touch the spell is targeted on someone.

No, it's not. It's an Effect.

If the Shield spell was "Effect: One disk of force", you could cast two and cover front and back at the same time. The reason you can't is that it's "Target: You".

Flame Blade has no target. It's an Evocation that produces an Effect, like Wall of Force. You can cast two Walls of Force at the same time; you can cast two Flame Blades at the same time.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

That has nothing to do with whether you can have two running or not.



No, it's not. It's an Effect.

If the Shield spell was "Effect: One disk of force", you could cast two and cover front and back at the same time. The reason you can't is that it's "Target: You".

Flame Blade has no target. It's an Evocation that produces an Effect, like Wall of Force. You can cast two Walls of Force at the same time; you can cast two Flame Blades at the same time.

-Hyp.

Yes, it's an effect. Where is it cast? On yourself.

This could be ruled either way, certainly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where is it cast? On yourself.

There is no "where" to the casting. The beam springs from your hand, but it's not cast "on" you. And you have two hands.

The spell produces a Flame Blade. It does not turn you into "a person with a Flame Blade". You are not affected in any way by the spell, and so there is no problem with two of them running simultaneously.

Again, I point to the Shield spell as an example of the opposite. It is not an effect, it is a targetted spell. It does not produce a disk of force - it turns you into "a person protected by a disk of force" for the duration of the spell.

Two very different scenarios, one of which has no stacking issues, and one of which does.

-Hyp.

 

[crater]

Nothing in the spell says you cant hand it off to some one else or even throw it with a Throw anything feat.

Flameblade is immaterial, I wouldnt allow it to be handed to someone else, and with range:0 I would say that it couldnt leave the casters hand.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wouldnt allow it to be handed to someone else, and with range:0 I would say that it couldnt leave the casters hand.

I agree there. But it's still an Effect, and thus multiplicable.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Actually, looking at it, I'm not entirely sure it can be empowered... Primarily because empower changes variable effects, and the damage of the spell is an effect of the effect (just like you don't apply empowerment to the hit dice, to hit rolls and damage of summoned creatures).

Anyone got an alternate take on that?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I let people Empower Shillelagh, so I'm probably not the best one to ask...

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Do you let people empower summon monster (when summoning only a single monster?)

Or rather - IF you were playing by the rules, would you empower shillelagh or flame blade? Or would you consider your ruling to be purely house-rule territory?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you let people empower summon monster (when summoning only a single monster?)

No.

Or rather - IF you were playing by the rules, would you empower shillelagh or flame blade? Or would you consider your ruling to be purely house-rule territory?

"purely house-rule" is, I think, too strong.

I think I'd consider it a potentially-dubious interpretation.

I'm trying to figure out how Summon Monster differs from Flame Blade, or Shillelagh, or Mordenkainen's Sword, as to why I'd allow those to be Empowered but not the Summon.

And to be honest, I think the main reason is that the damage of the Shillelagh etc is a variable numeric effect that appears within the spell description, while the damage dealt by a summoned monster is not.

It's mostly just a "feels right to me" answer, though

-Hyp.

 

[Ahrimon]

What's wrong with empowering a summon spell? It has no effect on the creature summoned, but with the higher level spells you can get a variable number of creatures from a lower list. If you empowered a summon creature and went for the single creature then it would be a waste. But if you went for a bunch of smaller creatures then empowering the spell would get your more creatures. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Of course if anyone in my campign tried to say it made the monsters tougher I would have to flog them.

Ahrimon