Flame Blade abuse/legality?

[Hypersmurf]

What's wrong with empowering a summon spell? It has no effect on the creature summoned, but with the higher level spells you can get a variable number of creatures from a lower list.

You'll notice my "No" was in reply to the question "when summoning only a single monster".

Yes, an Empowered SM III can summon half again as many creatures from the SM I list.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Flameblade is immaterial, I wouldnt allow it to be handed to someone else, and with range:0 I would say that it couldnt leave the casters hand.

If it's immaterial, then I wouldn't want to fight with it... not being able to parry or deflect weapons would be a major drawback

 

[LokiDR]

LokiDR -
I agree that the spell isn't terribly specific. But I have to disagree about the crit of the flame blade.

I know it all comes down to DM interpretation. I looked at the closest spell I could think of. Spiritual Weapon. Both create a weapon made of energy(one force, one fire) but the spiritual states(From the SRD):

Using a very similar spell as a reference I would rule that it has the scimitars crit range.

Spiritual weapon states that it includes the crit range. Flame blade says it is wielded like a specific weapon. Those seem distinc and separate to me. The lack of crit information implies default critical. It sounds like spiritual weapon proves the non-enhanced crit of flame blade. They are different in description.

There is also the logical argument. The scimitar is sharp which is why it has an enhanced crit range. Flame blade is just a beam of energy. It is insubstanstial, so any edge doesn't matter. Hence, no enhanced crit range.

 

[Darklone]

There is also the logical argument. The scimitar is sharp which is why it has an enhanced crit range. Flame blade is just a beam of energy. It is insubstanstial, so any edge doesn't matter. Hence, no enhanced crit range.

Axes and swords are sharp too.

I'd rather say the crit range stands for a certain fighting style (that depends naturally on your weapon). In this case, the scim crit range for the flameblade makes perfect sense.

And about being instubstantial... This should be a weapon???

 

[clark411]

The only explicit differences between a Flame Blade and a Scimitar are:

1) it's a force-like beam
2) it's damage is fire damage
3) it gains no benefit of strength
4) it is 1d8 + X damage.

Beyond this, it functions as a scimitar- that means crit range and multiplier. The spell, as I read it, is laid out to present the effect's base relationship to an existing 'real' weapon and then differenciate between the two, rather than listing out every aspect of the spell in the flavor text. Anything not listed as "different" should, to me, be assumed "not different" and that means threat ranges and, perhaps, applicability with feats etc.

 

[LokiDR]

Axes and swords are sharp too.

Both have greater than general crits, either range or multiplier.

I'd rather say the crit range stands for a certain fighting style (that depends naturally on your weapon). In this case, the scim crit range for the flameblade makes perfect sense.

Are you saying a scimitar with it's edge entirely grinded off would have the same crit range? I think that is just silly. Style might have something to do with it, but it the cutting action of the sharp blade that really hurts.

And about being instubstantial... This should be a weapon???

Huh?

 

[LokiDR]

The only explicit differences between a Flame Blade and a Scimitar are:

1) it's a force-like beam
2) it's damage is fire damage
3) it gains no benefit of strength
4) it is 1d8 + X damage.

Beyond this, it functions as a scimitar- that means crit range and multiplier. The spell, as I read it, is laid out to present the effect's base relationship to an existing 'real' weapon and then differenciate between the two, rather than listing out every aspect of the spell in the flavor text. Anything not listed as "different" should, to me, be assumed "not different" and that means threat ranges and, perhaps, applicability with feats etc.

You have a few points wrong. Here are the SRD entries on scimitar and flame blade for reference. Emphasis mine.

Scimitar 15 gp, 1d6 damage, 18-20/X2 crit, no range, 4 lb. (S)

Scimitar: The curve on this blade makes the weapon's edge effectively sharper.

vs.

Flame Blade
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Swordlike beam
Spell Resistance: Yes
A 3-foot-long beam of fire springs forth from the character's hand. The character wields this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar. Attacks with the flame blade are melee touch attacks. The blade deals 1d8 points of damage +1 point per two caster levels (maximum +10). Since the blade is immaterial, the character's Strength modifier does not apply to the damage, which is all fire damage.

So, it is not force like at all and does not function as a scimitar were stated. It is a spell. Feats that have to do with the wielding of a scimitar do apply as the flame blade is wielded that way. But the flame blade is not sharp at all, being immaterial so it can not be effectively sharper. You also forgot that the flame blade is a touch attack in your list of differences.

Flame blade does NOT say that it creates a scimitar of fire, only that this is how you swing it around. Weapon focus is in, scimitar crit range is out.

 

[clark411]

Ahh I getcha. The "like a scimitar" thing is mostly so druids can do it without being all "ew it's a sword, get it off me!" when they cast it.

As for my inaccuracies, sorry- was going from memory =)

 

[LGodamus]

I am with Loki...it only says wielded as a scimitar..not functions as a scimitar...that is put in there so druids dont violate their weapon oaths

so.....crit = 20/x2

 

[Gwarthkam]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

It surprises me that no one has said that they play it this way or that way, it would seem as if very few use this spell.

As for the critical range, would you treat Moon Blade (FR) similarly?

And since weapon focus [scimitar] or any bladed weapon focus for Moon Blade works would that mean that Weapon Focus [Touch attack] and other touch attack feats does not?