Gaming Pornography: Will 4th Edition lead to a more Realistic and Useful Game?

[6pakofdwarves]

I understand what the OP is saying, but I politely disagree. I too have played D&D for near 25 years now (since I was 10). I never felt a need for the game to have a grounding in the "realism" he is looking for. Tying it to real world mythology, religion, etc. For me the game has always been a combinations of escapism, morality play, get together with friends and strategic exercise. I LIKE that the new rules in 3e fully supported and encouraged miniatures. Because I find the strategy involved to be good exercise for the old brain pan, much like chess is.
However, the "usefulness" of the game is all in how you look at it and is not totally determined by the structure of the rules. All the things mentioned can easily be incorporated into ANY game played using the current or future rules.
Fighters battling a minotaur in a maze? Check
Combating a dread vampire lord in his castle? Check
Tracking and slaying a beast that is killing your friends in their sleep in the Great Hall? Check
Railing against the inquisition of the all powerful church? Check

The rules facilitate the game, the players MAKE the game.

 

[Mokona]

With none of the historical, mythological, religious, cultural, literary, poetical, etc. connection to the past of the real world

While I disagree with the rambling of your semi-nonsense you can still do what I do. Myth and literary devices are part of the story which Dungeon Master's create; insert them yourself as you run your Dungeons & Dragons games.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Meh. I have been playing D&D since 1978 and the game hasn't changed at its core at all. The rules have changed (for the better, IMHO), but all of the things that the OP is talking about are about setting and feel. Those things are edition independent. The books may showcase one feel, but that is not the way I run my games.

Ah well, to each his own.

 

[Fifth Element]

I am largely in agreement with Jack7 and Reynard. I prefer for D&D to be inspired by the world's mythologies (Aztec, Egyptian, Vedic, Chinese, etc.) and by the old fantasy masters (George MacDonald, William Morris, H. P. Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, A. Merritt, J. R. R. Tolkien, etc.).

I don't prefer for D&D to be inspired by computer games, comic books, or most fantasy written since Tolkien died.

All right, I'll just get the snark out of the way: I suppose you also want those kids to get off your lawn? End of snark.

Do you prefer that a loosely Western-European setting be based on Aztec or Egyptian myth? I don't think that's very "realistic". Really, if you want Aztec myth you're going to need Maztica or other appropriate supplements, which have been done before and don't necessarily need to be done again.

Really, at this point D&D is largely based on D&D mythology, which had been developing for over 30 years now. It's one way of presenting the material without requiring all players to use the myths of a particular Earth culture in their standard games.

And really, stripping out all the D&D-myth-specific stuff and replacing it with Thor and Odin and skalds and berserkers ain't hard.

 

[Lanefan]

I too am going to lob my general support to Jack7 and Reynard (nice analysis, by the way; you put in words what I haven't figured out how to say yet).

Yes, D+D is a fantasy game, with magic and elves and beholders and uber-heroic heroes...and so it should always remain. That said, there's no good reason why it can't also be somewhat grounded in or based on our own reality, mythology, etc. where possible. If nothing else, learning about Norse gods and Celtic culture for your game means you're learning about Norse gods and Celtic culture *at all*, which you might not otherwise have done. (assuming, of course, the game designers use information that's at least vaguely accurate, but that's another issue) So why not, where it makes no difference, steer the game towards being educational as a side effect?

Lanefan

 

[Nifft]

And when exactly did D&D have a better tie (or any tie) to actual ancient myths?

When I was 12, and had thought about such things less, the game seemed more wondrous and more realistic.

Strangely, the more I learn about reality, the less "realism" I see -- or want -- in any of my games.

Cheers, -- N

 

[outsider]

I agree with a lot of what Jack7 is saying, especially the "porn" part, but I think some respondents have homed in unfairly on individual statements.*

The "individual statements" people are homing in "unfairly" on are the thesis of his post. He starts and ends his post asking if 4th edition is going to be more "realistic" and "useful". Thus, if you want to respond to his post, that's the statement you respond to. He maintains that 1st ed D&D is somehow more "realistic" and "useful" than modern D&D, so it's only fair that people argue otherwise.

As for why people think he's a troll, one of the reasons would be the obviously loaded and potentially quite insulting term he chose. "Gaming Pornography". That's equivalent to me saying something like "My gaming group and I have come up with a term to describe the uneccessary and elitist focus on minute details of realism in old school D&D. We call it Intellectual Masturbation". Another reason would be the "like a bad video game" line he used that seems to be so popular in 4th edition discussions. Which is really no different than the "like a bad wargame" line used by people when they are trolling the old school D&D players. Another reason would be that he's saying he's too smart to waste his time with modern D&D, thus implying he's smarter than those that do play it.

 

[Numion]

Gaming pornography? I think it's a great term.

Just take a term that that has negative connotations in real life and tack on those to another thing you don't like. Modern D&D is:

videogamey
anime
dungeonpunk
gaming porn

What next? Can I suggest:

4E is the rap music of RPGs?

 

[Agamon]

Why is this thread 2 pages long? I mean, really....

 

[Nifft]

Why is this thread 2 pages long? I mean, really....

Level 8 troll, man. You gotta give it some respect!

C, -- N