TSR Giantlands

[Gradine]

I disagree with a lot of folks on OSR gameplay concepts. I disagree with people who like Dungeon World. I disagree with people who put pineapple on their pizzas.

The problem with Pundit and his co-hosts is not our disagreements. The problem is the vile hatred they spew, towards people of color, towards women, towards trans folx like me. That's not a disagreement, that's a denial of my humanity.

So you'll excuse me if I posit that taking the time to sit down for a friendly chat with a group of bigots, contributing to legitimize their platform, is completely and utterly disqualifying.

 

[billd91]

I disagree with people who put pineapple on their pizzas.

 

[Steampunkette]

So paint Ward with the views HE expresses or says he agrees with. Not the views of the interviewer. The claim was if Ward went on an interview show with someone who has bad views that somehow meant Ward had those bad views merely for going on that show. That's not typically how interview shows work, and I don't think it's a fair standard.

There's an old saying that I'll modify slightly:

If you have a civil man, good and earnest, who sits down at a table with three bigots who talk of their bigotry and he finds no cause to stop them or redress their hateful speech: You are looking at a table of four bigots.

 

[Libertad]

So paint Ward with the views HE expresses or says he agrees with. Not the views of the interviewer. The claim was if Ward went on an interview show with someone who has bad views that somehow meant Ward had those bad views merely for going on that show. That's not typically how interview shows work, and I don't think it's a fair standard.

I just said that they both agree with each other in the portions of the interview I saw and even gave a specific example quote (re: drow and black people), so I don't know where you're getting that I was implying otherwise.

 

[Mistwell]

There's an old saying that I'll modify slightly:

If you have a civil man, good and earnest, who sits down at a table with three bigots who talk of their bigotry and he finds no cause to stop them or redress their hateful speech: You are looking at a table of four bigots.

Sure if during the interview Pundit says something problematic and Ward just nods and says nothing I think that's fair to call Ward out on it.

The claim was that Ward had somehow sinned merely for going on an interview video that included Pundit as one of the interviewers. That's not a fair standard. It smacks of one of those "Are you now or have you ever associated with..." dark 1950s days questions.

 

[Gradine]

I pile on anchovies and, when available, kimchi. I'm well aware I'm the odd one out on this one. I know who I am

 

[Mistwell]

I just said that they both agree with each other in the portions of the interview I saw and even gave a specific example quote (re: drow and black people), so I don't know where you're getting that I was implying otherwise.

I am, again, responding to the original claim which was made which was:

RPG Pundit and his crew are known quantities at this point, and Jim chose to appear on their podcast.

You then responded to me, and so I explained again. If you have a problem with his drow comment, that's fair. But him merely being on an interview show where Pundit is one of the interviewers and then claiming purely from that fact (and nothing else) that means he shares Pundit's views on all things or has somehow himself committed some sort of sin by appearing on their show, seemed an unfair standard.

 

[Gradine]

If Guy Fieri hosted a cooking special with David Duke and the ghost of H.P. Lovecraft, I think it would be fair to make certain judgments about Fieri's character

 

[Gradine]

I am, again, responding to the original claim which was made. You then responded to me, and so I explained again. If you have a problem with his drow comment, that's fair. But him merely being on an interview show where Pundit is one of the interviewers and then claiming purely from that fact (and nothing else) that means he shares Pundit's views on all things, seemed an unfair standard.

All three of the interviewers are loud and proud bigots. Stop downplaying this

 

[Mistwell]

If Guy Fieri hosted a cooking special with David Duke and the ghost of H.P. Lovecraft, I think it would be fair to make certain judgments about Fieri's character

And yet this isn't comparable to that. I don't want to get political so let's leave specifics out, but I guarantee if you have voted for any national politician, they at some point went on a television interview show with people whose views you deeply object to. Because national politicians often go on the shows of people from the extreme opposite of their views, to try and reach their audiences.

Pundit has said plenty of wrong things and I find him deeply annoying and I tell him fairly often that he is full of...poop. But he's not David Duke or H.P. Lovecraft's ghost. He's schtick. A really annoying schtick.

 

[Mistwell]

All three of the interviewers are loud and proud bigots. Stop downplaying this

I don't know anyone on that show other than Pundit, but I am not downplaying anything (other than saying Pundit is not the ghost of Lovecraft or David Duke level, which he isn't). Stop playing the, "Are you now or have you ever associated with..." witch hunt game.

Going on an interview show with someone who says bad things isn't the same as you believing in those things or supporting those things. That's not a fair standard. It's not a standard we use in society. The very paradox of intolerance you support comes from a book which speaks at great length about directly speaking to those you disagree with, and to the audiences of those who you disagree with where you find those audiences.

 

[CleverNickName]

I have no problem with anchovies on pizza. And I'll have to try kimchi on a pizza, for sure: I had kimchi on a hot dog last weekend and it was absolutely delicious. (Seriously, try it. I'll never be able to go back to sauerkraut.)

I don't mind pineapple on my pizza, either. I mean, it's not my favorite but I won't complain if my guests want me to chip in for one. Why should my personal preference dictate what others are allowed to enjoy?

But if someone wanted to I dunno, put rat poison on a pizza, I would stop them immediately. Even if they were "just kidding around." Especially if they were just kidding around. Poison isn't a joke to laugh about, it isn't an argument, it isn't a philosophical debate...it's deadly and it hurts people. I don't want it anywhere near food, and I don't want to be around people who are comfortable with its use.

Sorry if this analogy feels strained.

 

[Thaumaturge]

And now I’m hungry.

Thaumaturge.

 

[DammitVictor]

I pile on anchovies and, when available, kimchi. I'm well aware I'm the odd one out on this one. I know who I am

But how can you eat anchovies on a pizza without pineapple? They are the perfect complements as pizza toppings. Pineapple, anchovy, and roasted red pepper is as perfect and wholesome as pineapple, spinach, and feta.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If Guy Fieri hosted a cooking special with David Duke and the ghost of H.P. Lovecraft, I think it would be fair to make certain judgments about Fieri's character

One thing’s for sure, nothing in the menu would be “blackened.”

 

[Steampunkette]

Sure if during the interview Pundit says something problematic and Ward just nods and says nothing I think that's fair to call Ward out on it.

The claim was that Ward had somehow sinned merely for going on an interview video that included Pundit as one of the interviewers. That's not a fair standard. It smacks of one of those "Are you now or have you ever associated with..." dark 1950s days questions.

The Devil needs no Advocate, Mistwell.

The video exists online, and you are free to watch it. You're also free to read the various reviews of it's contents, or explicitly it's objectionable contents, on this forum as well as others. You've explicitly, and repeatedly, stated that you have no, or minimal, knowledge of it's contents. At this point in the conversation there's no reason for that to be true except that you do not -wish- to know.

Pretending that this information is somehow unattainable or untenable for you to absorb while continually haranguing someone who directly referenced the stuff for a particular line you "Don't Like" and comparing it to Communist Hunts in the 50s is disingenuous at best.

Dude sat down with bigots and listened to their bigotry with a smile on his face. Said his own bigoted BS along the way. End of story.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's not a standard we use in society.

To be fair, we sorta DO sometimes, depending on context and how vile the interviewer/host is.

There’s lots of people who (repeatedly) show up on Jones‘ or Bannon’s show that catch flak for it, for instance.

And the lady who was on Maury Povitch’s show 4+ times to figure out the paternity of her kid did NOT do her reputation any favors.

This isn‘t new to us, either. Goes back thousands of years.

Library of Congress Aesop Fables

read.gov

 

[Umbran]

All three of the interviewers are loud and proud bigots.

Yeah. I can't say you don't have a right to judge the man as you choose, other than to note that saints are hard to find these days.

(other than saying Pundit is not the ghost of Lovecraft or David Duke level, which he isn't).

And that is an incredibly low bar for being a decent human being. Maybe we should raise the expectations a tad, hm?

You folks seem to have each set standards the other isn't going to find acceptable. So, from the outside, it doesn't look like either of you are going to budge. Please ask yourselves if you really want to do this dance before you continue. Thanks.

 

[billd91]

Pundit has said plenty of wrong things and I find him deeply annoying and I tell him fairly often that he is full of...poop. But he's not David Duke or H.P. Lovecraft's ghost. He's schtick. A really annoying schtick.

At some point, you have to accept that the schtick is him. And if it’s not him, but he keeps sticking to it, he‘d rather be known for it than being himself. Either way, it’s pretty damning.

 

[Umbran]

At some point, you have to accept that the schtick is him. And if it’s not him, but he keeps sticking to it, he‘d rather be known for it than being himself. Either way, it’s pretty damning.

The Rule of Goats applies.

I really need to find a formulation of that which is really snappy, but printable on these forums. I'll go with the LA Times version - If you kiss a goat, even if you are doing it ironically or to cheese off people you think are too sensitive, you're still a goat-kisser. Being insincere in your goat-kissing does not make it a virtue.