Gloves of Storing Question

[kreynolds]

It's called "realism in role-playing" -- if you whack away with a sword or similar weapon, and never care for it ... magic or not, eventually the weapon will start to suffer for it. Blades get notched, that sort of thing.

Oh, I know what you're saying. Passively, caring for your weapons does exist in my games, which is why everyone with a bladed weapon owns a whetstone, but it makes no noticeable rules impact upon the game. It's assumed that if you have 10 or 15 minutes of free time at any point every few days, you're caring for your weapon.

I pretty much agree with you, just not from a rules standpoint. Rules for item wear and tear is a twisting, spiraling, whirlwind of death.

 

[kreynolds]

I don't recall reading any specific rule that says "the characetrs must eat food X times per day" ... that's implicit, i that normal people (unless otherwise stated) require sustenance.

I remembered seeing something about this in the DMG, and I managed to find it. It's on page 86, Starvation and Thirst. There is errata for it too. It says "In normal climates, Medium-size characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation.” Just thought I toss that out there.

 

[Pax]

The glove of storing uses shrink item as the basis for its ability.

Shrink item is able to store items as cloth representations. I think we can probably agree that this is more or less what's happening with the glove.

Thus, it's not really that time has stopped for the item - it's that physical change has stopped for the item (since it's turned into cloth).

If the flaming torch is turned to cloth, it will no longer burn - it's not a fire on top of a torch, it's a bit of red & orange cloth on top of a bit of brown cloth. When it stops being cloth, it's a fire again and you have a lit torch.

If the magicked sword is turned to cloth, you suddenly have a +5 miniscule piece of cloth. The cloth is still +5 to hit and damage (for whatever good that does), and the GMW spell expires normally.

No; it's a piece of cloth with sequins on it (a cloth representationof the "sparkly-magic-stuff" if you will). Same logic as with the flame.

If "magic" doesn't change during the change, why would "combustion" change?

What about a sword with Flaming weapon on it? Does it become a piece of coth with a bit of orange ribbon on it ... ? That would be about the same as you describe the torch.

If you had a continual flame cast on the sword, you would then have a miniscule piece of cloth with continual flame cast on it. Since the item in the glove is not visible (for whatever reason), the light would not be visible either.

Tiny flames emit tiny amounts of light.

 

[Berk]

Hmmmmm, still trying to figure out how to explain this without going into exploitive deleted exploitive deleted. =o)

 

[Caliban]

No; it's a piece of cloth with sequins on it (a cloth representationof the "sparkly-magic-stuff" if you will). Same logic as with the flame.

If "magic" doesn't change during the change, why would "combustion" change?

One is magic, the other isn't.

One is a physical process that can be affected by stasis, the other is a non-physical magical effect that would not be affected by the stasis effect.

Magical effects are not items. A flame is a physical item (a cloud of agitated gas). The agitated molecules that make up the flame are stored just like anything else, and are returned to the state they were in before being stored, when you pop the torch out.

A spell that is cast on an item is still a spell, and would not be affected.

What about a sword with Flaming weapon on it? Does it become a piece of coth with a bit of orange ribbon on it ... ? That would be about the same as you describe the torch.

Pretty much. Since the Flaming has no duration, it wouldn't end while in the glove.

Tiny flames emit tiny amounts of light.

And if you could see the item, you would see a tiny amount of light (if you are referring to an object with continual flame). Since you can't see the items that are stored in the glove (perhaps they are literally inside the glove?), you can't see any light they may be emitting.

 

[drnuncheon]

No; it's a piece of cloth with sequins on it (a cloth representationof the "sparkly-magic-stuff" if you will). Same logic as with the flame.

If "magic" doesn't change during the change, why would "combustion" change?

Because a 'fire' or a 'torch' is considered an object by the D&D rules of magic, while 'a spell' is not. You can cast shrink item on an object, but not a creature or a spell.

If you prefer, however, try this on for size:

Greater magic weapon has as its target "one weapon or fifty projectiles". A tiny piece of cloth stored in a glove is not a weapon. Therefore, greater magic weapon cannot affect it, and the spell ends as soon as you put the weapon inside the glove of storing.

J

 

[Pax]

One is magic, the other isn't.

One is a physical process that can be affected by stasis, the other is a non-physical magical effect that would not be affected by the stasis effect.[/b]

As I said, however, that logic means -- the torch is extinguished, and does not re-light. Yet according to the item description, it is lit when it comes out of stasis.

Magical effects are not items.

Others have pointed out how the magic becomes part of the item. However, I will point out that some magical effects ARE items -- Wall of Stone. Wall of Iron. Leomund's Secure Shelter. Just to name a few.

A flame is a physical item (a cloud of agitated gas). The agitated molecules that make up the flame are stored just like anything else, and are returned to the state they were in before being stored, when you pop the torch out.

Okay, redirect: what happens to the PROCESS called "combustion" ... of which the flameis merely a BYPRODUCT?

Pretty much. Since the Flaming has no duration, it wouldn't end while in the glove.

No, I meant, flaming via a spell effect. My apologies if I was unclear.

And if you could see the item, you would see a tiny amount of light (if you are referring to an object with continual flame). Since you can't see the items that are stored in the glove (perhaps they are literally inside the glove?), you can't see any light they may be emitting.

I cannot see an individual ion/atom in a highly luminescent plasma, but I can see the light it emits. Besides, as your (IMO silly) concept says, the tiem becomes a tiny piece of cloth ... and nopiece of cloth is too small to be seen with the naked eye, while it's still cloth (get that small and it's "traces of fiber" ...).

Originally posted by drnuncheon:
Because a 'fire' or a 'torch' is considered an object by the D&D rules of magic, while 'a spell' is not. You can cast shrink item on an object, but not a creature or a spell.

Right, you could not cast Shrink Item directly on the spell. But you could cast it on the item the spell is "on" ... and IMO, that would work fine.

In the case of the Gloves, since it specifies it holds things in stasis -- apparently a temporal stasis -- (the Torch issue again),

If you prefer, however, try this on for size:

Greater magic weapon has as its target "one weapon or fifty projectiles". A tiny piece of cloth stored in a glove is not a weapon. Therefore, greater magic weapon cannot affect it, and the spell ends as soon as you put the weapon inside the glove of storing.

J[/b][/quote]

That'd work, for purely a Shrink Item function. however, the gloves don't say the item turns to cloth (that was something borught up here, in reference to it's prerequisite spell, Shrink Item), only that it becomes infinitessimally small. So it becomes a microscopic +5 sword ... in stasis.

 

[LGodamus]

"Others have pointed out how the magic becomes part of the item. However, I will point out that some magical effects ARE items -- Wall of Stone. Wall of Iron. Leomund's Secure Shelter. Just to name a few."

OK Now you are just getting silly, Just because someone said magic becomes part of an item does not make it true.There is not one sentence that comes to mind in the rules that says ok now this magic is now part of this item.....futhermore no magical effects are items...the walls duration is instant so the material is not spell effedt it is just material......the shelter is not an item either it is a space a place of sorts.........no go

Okay, redirect: what happens to the PROCESS called "combustion" ... of which the flameis merely a BYPRODUCT?


flaming torches are specifically mentioned to be effected nothing happens to combustion or the flame....it is not flame or combustion at all any more it is a piece of magical cloth......so much for that , eh?

I cannot see an individual ion/atom in a highly luminescent plasma, but I can see the light it emits. Besides, as your (IMO silly) concept says, the tiem becomes a tiny piece of cloth ... and nopiece of cloth is too small to be seen with the naked eye, while it's still cloth (get that small and it's "traces of fiber" ...).




it is not his silly concept ...it is D&D's silly concept...it is magic ...that is the way it works ... You just seem to be mad that this doesn't work the way you want it to....sorry . I want the lottery to work differently.....namely only so I can win , but it ain't happenin. No matter how much you whine and say it is silly and stupid does not change it......

 

[Pax]

Originally posted by Pax
Others have pointed out how the magic becomes part of the item. However, I will point out that some magical effects ARE items -- Wall of Stone. Wall of Iron. Leomund's Secure Shelter. Just to name a few.

OK Now you are just getting silly, Just because someone said magic becomes part of an item does not make it true.There is not one sentence that comes to mind in the rules that says ok now this magic is now part of this item.....futhermore no magical effects are items...the walls duration is instant so the material is not spell effedt it is just material......the shelter is not an item either it is a space a place of sorts.........no go

Just an aside; please try to note, if you don't close tags (like /B or /QUOTE), replying to you is just a bit more troublesome than it should be.

Now as for the discussion at hand; at least in the case of Leomund's Secure Shelter: the walls, ceiling, fireplace, furniture, and so on are items. They exist only for hte duration of the spell.

Or, the food and furniture in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion ...

Originally posted by Pax
Okay, redirect: what happens to the PROCESS called "combustion" ... of which the flameis merely a BYPRODUCT?

flaming torches are specifically mentioned to be effected nothing happens to combustion or the flame....it is not flame or combustion at all any more it is a piece of magical cloth......so much for that , eh?

No.

If you stop or interrupt combustion, it STAYS stopped. Is the torch re-lit when it is returned from sstorage? No, it's simply still a lit torch. It doesn't flare back to life, it's already fully lit and burning.

Originally posted by Pax
I cannot see an individual ion/atom in a highly luminescent plasma, but I can see the light it emits. Besides, as your (IMO silly) concept says, the tiem becomes a tiny piece of cloth ... and nopiece of cloth is too small to be seen with the naked eye, while it's still cloth (get that small and it's "traces of fiber" ...).

it is not his silly concept ...it is D&D's silly concept...it is magic ...that is the way it works ... You just seem to be mad that this doesn't work the way you want it to....sorry . I want the lottery to work differently.....namely only so I can win , but it ain't happenin. No matter how much you whine and say it is silly and stupid does not change it......

Mad because it doesn't work the way I want it to?

No, I'm aghast that people can so misconstrue a clearly-worded concept. Items are shrunk *and* held "in stasis" ... that means "without change" ... which would include spell durations.

Aghast that people forget "occam's razor" -- the simplest anser is (usually) best. The simplest answer isn't one that creates new questions.

 

[Zenon]

Wow, got a reply already from the tsrsage@aol.com address (I think that is Skip):

This is what I sent:

Hi!


I have a question about a magic item, Glove of Storing:


"Glove of Storing


This device is a simple leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. The item is held in stasis and shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Many owners of gloves of storing find them to be useful and dramatic ways to store weapons, wands, and-because the item is stored in stasis-even lit torches. If the effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. Although it is handy to have two of these gloves, the creation process yields only one.


Caster Level: 6th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, shrink item; Market Price: 2,200 gp; Weight: -."


Would a spell cast on an item placed in a Glove of Storing still count down
it's spell duration, or would the spell duration be suspended while the item
was stored?


For example:


Greater Magic Weapon is cast on a sword with a duration of 15 hours (making
it a +5 weapon) is shrunk and stored in the Glove. Two weeks later, the
weapon is produced from the Glove. Is the weapon still under the effect of
the GMW spell, or has the spell long since expired?


Thanks for any insight or answer you can give me on this one!

And here is the answer I got back:

I recommend that you *do not* allow the "stasis" effect to extend the duration of any magical effect.