D&D 5E Grappler Feat and Being Restrained Open Discussion

[DND_Reborn]

The pin ability is the lesser of the two IMO

That is my issue really. Actually, all this came up because I am making an armored dwarf grappler rogue gladiator build.

 

[the Jester]

The advantage of pinning your enemy with Grappler is that you're giving all your buddies advantage. That's significant, IMHO.

 

[Charlaquin]

This is definitely a way to counter a grapple. That said, if you can beat a person's defense to grapple them, why not just use that roll to escape? That said, escaping nets you nothing, grappling them fixes them to a space.

I was a fan of the, overly complex and detailed, 3.5 grapple rules.

I think it would be interesting if pinning and/or grappling allowed you to do auto-damage. Maybe just your strength bonus in damage every round. To represent a sleeper hold or just wearing a person down until they tap out.

I think a nice compromise between the simplicity of the 5e grapple rules and the nuance of the 3.X grapple rules would be something like the nWoD 2e (AKA CofD) grapple rules. Simple contested roll a la 5e, with a managavle number of maneuvers the winner of the contest can choose between to perform.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think grappling as written is pretty good as far as rules go. You essentially stop the opponent from moving at the cost of one attack.

The grappling feat gives you something else useful (advantage) as well as something occasionally useful (pin).

I don't think it is overpowering, but it can be useful - One use is a thief with athletics expertise - grapple the first round with a high likelihood of success then SA with advantage every round after that. Even more useful if you get multiple attacks ... meanwhile you drag him to the area on the battlefield that you want him. The opponent has to use his action to break the grapple.

The pin ability is the lesser of the two IMO

This is the most effective way to do a Strengrh rogue, IMO.

 

[GMMichael]

The second part about restraining a creature is also nice in theory, but fairly pointless unless your goal is to keep in captive or you have allies to beat it up.

So, not pointless at all? It's also useful if someone is waiting around to declare you the winner or loser.

The advantage granted by the Grappler feat is lost, and the net benefit is the grappler makes attacks normally. Not bad I guess, but it costs you a feat and TWO actions to get there. If the restraining action was an attack and not the entire action, I think it would be more useful at higher levels.

If you're trying to cause damage, you probably shouldn't be grappling/restraining. Or looking at the grappler feat.

So, here's my thinking. Is the advantage granted by the Grappler feat specific enough to override the disadvantage imposed by being Restrained. Could you argue this is a case of specific beating out general?

No. See above posts.

Is it meh? I don't know, I prefer my ability score increases Also, there are only so many halflings and goblins that a dwarf gladiator can embarrass. After them, "grappling" just means you're hanging onto someone's leg.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, not pointless at all? It's also useful if someone is waiting around to declare you the winner or loser.


If you're trying to cause damage, you probably shouldn't be grappling/restraining. Or looking at the grappler feat.


No. See above posts.

Is it meh? I don't know, I prefer my ability score increases Also, there are only so many halflings and goblins that a dwarf gladiator can embarrass. After them, "grappling" just means you're hanging onto someone's leg.

Well, the greatest advantage really is once he has them grappled he can weapon attack with advantage for SA. So, I don't have to rely on an ally in combat or find other ways to get advantage. It just sucks because moving to a restrained level won't allow my SA at that point.

 

[MarkB]

It bothers me that a pinned target has no harder a time escaping than one who is just grappled, since the Restrained condition doesn't affect ability checks. If I were going to alter the Grappler feat, I'd give pinned targets disadvantage when attempting to escape using a Strength or Dexterity check.

 

[Helldritch]

Just prevent the grappled opponent to use a medium weapon or greater is sufficient IMHO. It is logical. If the grappeled wants to grapple you in return, it should be an opposed roll.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It bothers me that a pinned target has no harder a time escaping than one who is just grappled, since the Restrained condition doesn't affect ability checks. If I were going to alter the Grappler feat, I'd give pinned targets disadvantage when attempting to escape using a Strength or Dexterity check.

I thought about the idea that the restrained target makes a check, but becomes grappled instead of escaping if they succeed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Just prevent the grappled opponent to use a medium weapon or greater is sufficient IMHO. It is logical. If the grappeled wants to grapple you in return, it should be an opposed roll.

But it doesn't prevent the grapple target from using a "medium" or even two-handed weapon (unless I am misunderstanding you?).

And if the grapple target wants to grapple you back, it is an opposed check (just as a normal grapple is).