grappling questions

[Eryndur]

Two questions about grappling:
1) When you attempt to start a grapple, you have to grab first, which is a melee touch attack. If successful, you roll an opposed grapple check to hold the opponent. The grapple check is base+str+size. Isn't this the same as a melee touch attack? So, in effect, you make one base+str+size roll against an AC, and then make a second base+str+size roll against the opponent's roll? I just need a confirmation on this.
2) When adding grapplers, the PHB gives the info about how many grapplers can join according to size, but it doesn't describe the modifiers that result (at least not that I can find). If two men are grappling, and a third comes in to help the first, would the third man simply give the first man a +2 on subsequent grapple checks? That's the house rule I've been going by, but if anyone knows anything official about this, I'm all ears.
Thanks!
Jon

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

1) When you attempt to start a grapple, you have to grab first, which is a melee touch attack. If successful, you roll an opposed grapple check to hold the opponent. The grapple check is base+str+size. Isn't this the same as a melee touch attack? So, in effect, you make one base+str+size roll against an AC, and then make a second base+str+size roll against the opponent's roll? I just need a confirmation on this.

Size doesn't provide a modifier for the touch attack, just for the opposed grapple check.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Size doesn't provide a modifier for the touch attack, just for the opposed grapple check.

Size does modify the attack roll and the grapple check, there are just different size modifiers for the different attacks. (Attacking favors small creatures and grappling favors large ones.)

1) Yes, that's correct, but as I mentioned before, there are a few modifiers that are different. Also notice that you take feats like Weapon Focus for Grapple and Unarmed Seperately.

2) The original grappler would only gain that benefit if the additional grapplers used their attacks for the "Aid Another" action.

The normal benefit for multiple grapplers, is that they all get to attack.

 

[Eryndur]

Thanks for the help, guys. That cleared things up.
Jon