Greatsword, not Bastard Sword

[comrade raoul]

Greatsword + this feat: +1 AC, +1 Ref, +3/1d10 weapon. Cost: 1 feat.
Bastard Sword + small shield: +1 AC, +1 Ref, +3/1d10 weapon. Cost: 1 feat, and must be proficient with a small shield.

It's balanced vs the bastard sword, as long as we add a prereq that's similar in magnitude to being proficient with a small shield. However, IMO the bastard sword is too good and should be removed.

I pretty much agree. However, since fighters and paladins get proficiency with heavy shields for free, the best comparison is with them, not light shields. This, again, is the core rationale for the feat: my take is that bastard swords are too good because you get to have your cake (two-handed weapon damage) and eat it, too (full shield benefits). Greatsword Parry is an attempt at a compromise. I want the greatsword to be an iconic fighter weapon that sits right between one-handed and two-handed weapons, and offers some of the benefit of each approach. To use a topical analogy, from my perspective, the greatsword should be the Mitsurugi between the one-hander-and-shield's Sophitia and the two-hander's Astaroth.

So I'm most interested in criticism that takes the form of analysis about balance implications, not simulationist worries. Compared to, say, the longsword and the heavy flail, is the greatsword of Greatsword Parry balanced given the feat cost?

In other words, would it be balanced for a longsword wielder to trade a feat and a point of AC/Reflex for a 1d10 damage die and the ability to get two-hander benefits (mostly Power Attack and Reaping Strike, right?) when he wants to? I think so, but I'm not sure and I'm totally open to arguments to the contrary.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I think balance wise its not a good idea, but a great sword is an amazing way to defend ones self. Its practically a shield, all you need to do is keep your point on line and i think people would be amazed at the actual defense a large sword can provide. This is assuming you don't do something silly like over swing the sword as depicted in movies.

in fact if we wanted to get all realistic i don't think a great sword would provide any extra damage then a normal sword for a normal attack but would provide tons of damage if one over swings, but this would drop ones guard imensly.

But this just mucks up the rules and i think they are fine the way they are.

In terms of thematics, I see greatsword as brave hearts sword, I see a long sword being 46 inches (sometimes 48) and alwayse used as a 2hw. I could never imagain it being used one handed (well I can but I know how hard it is). And I see swords like clouds or guts sword as a fullblade which is 3.5 and semi broken (maybe).

I know the rules are diffrent and thats cool. Alot of the rules are not realistic or traditional and i dont think it needs to be is some cases.

 

[Kingbreaker]

Historically, greatswords are NOT as heavy, clumsy, or unwieldy as is commonly imagined. Katanas are NOT automatically better!

http://www.deltin.net/2158.htm - this is a 15th century 2-hander. It weighs a gargantuan 4.5 lbs. [/sarcasm]

http://www.deltin.net/2162.htm - this one is about as "great" as usable swords got. Weight? ~ 8 lbs.

Heavy? Certainly. For someone untrained to use it and who works behind a desk all day.

In the 16th century these swords were used to break up pike formations. (An argument for reach?) In close combat, it's used more like a staff weapon. Warriors were trained to grip well forward of the main guard for levarage and - yes - defensive purposes. That's the purpose of the lugs - to protect the hands for melee combat.

IMO it's entirely appropriate for a greatsword to get a defensive bonus. Failing that, at least give them reach. Anything to make it worth taking over a bastard sword.

 

[macellarius]

you do realize...

that greatsword and bastard sword are supposed to be switched right? greatsword is supposed to be better than the bastard sword. in the illustrations they have them labled right, but in the item lists they have them switched... spread the word because it's annoying as hell

 

[inati]

If the bastard sword vs greatsword issue really irks people so much, why don't people just houserule that the Fullblade from the AV replaces the Greatsword's stats?

Sure, it would make the Greatsword into the best 2hander in the game without spending a feat, but it seems there are plenty of people here who want or expect that to be the case anyways