Green Men of Mars/Barsoom (version 1.8)

[Wolf72]

sooo I finally got around to watching John Carter ... it was ok, well worth the netflix. I liked the books more, but that's a whole 'nother thread and forum.

Where they fit in? 1.) nomadic desert dwellers on any world; 2.) raiders from another prime material plane (or world ... stargate/portal anyone?) 3.) as a non-evil but adversarial species ... they seemed less concerned with the overall good/evil axis.

Given the different hordes that make up the Green Men they could simply be a plague of locusts competing for territory and resources and honor.

anyway, here's my interpretation. I try to keep things grounded and not to powerful, if I want a really powerful beast I'd use a dragon ... for these things, I'd add some/several N/PC class levels.

Green Men of Barsoom
•	CN, N, or LN Large Monstrous Humanoid
Initiative/Senses: 	+1/Low-light vision, Perception +5
Armor Class: 		14, touch 10, flat-footed 14 (-1 size, +1 dex, +1 natural, +3 armor)
HD/HP:			2d10+2 (13 hp, max 22 hp)
Saves:			Fort +1, Refl +4, Will +3
Spec Qualities:		Multiple Limbs, naturally psionic (+2 power points, can take psionic feats)
Speed:			40 ft
Melee:			Longsword +1 (2d6+2) and 2 handaxes +1 (1d8+1) and tusk -2 (1d6+1)
Ranged:			Javelin +2 (1d8+2)
Space/Reach:		10 ft/10 ft (5 ft with tusk)
Spec Attk:		Pounce (charge with full attack)
Spell-Like Abilities:	Missive (1 pp, 35 ft, up to 10 words), Vim (1 pp, +1 hp, 2 min)
Abilities:		Str 15 (+2), Dex 13 (+1), Con 13 (+1), Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 9 (-1)
BAB/CMB/CMD:		+2/+4/15
Feats:			Multi-weapon fighting (-2/-2)
Skills:			Acrobatics 2/6, Climb 2/7, Craft 2/5 (weapon, armor, or jewelry), 
                        Intimidate 2/4, Perception 2/5, Ride 2/6, Stealth 2/2, Survival 2/5
			
Languages:		Barsoom
Equipment:		Longsword, 2 handaxes, MW Studded Leather Armor, 4 Javelins
Base Stat Mods:		+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 cha
Advancement:		By character class

Green men stand from 12-15 feet tall and their four-armed torsos are lean and muscular with two large up-turned tusks. The green men refer to their clan, tribal, and horde leaders as Jeddak. They are warlike, honorable, and practical. In combat green men prefer to open with thrown weapons then charge in using their pounce ability. The armor they wear doubles as a weapons harness. They are naturally aggressive and duels and challenges are quite common among them. Green men advance by character class. Fighting classes such as barbarian, fighter, ranger and warrior are popular, while some individuals pursue the path of psychic warrior. The green men are superstitious and the few that become adepts or clerics are met with equal amounts of awe, respect and fear.

 

[Cleon]

Melee: Longsword +2 (2d6+3) and 2 handaxes -2 (1d8+3) and tusk -2 (1d6+3)

Assuming this includes the Multiweapon Fighting feat, the melee attack line should be "Longsword +2 (2d6+3), 2 handaxes +2 (1d8+1), tusks -1 (1d6+1)"

Longsword: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -2 two-weapon fighting primary hand penalty with light offhand weapon & MWF feat

Handaxe: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -2 two-weapon fighting off hand penalty with light offhand weapon & MWF feat

Tusks: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -5 secondary natural weapon penalty

The handaxe and tusk attacks are offhand/secondary attacks, so use half the Strength modifier on their damage rolls.

 

[Cleon]

HD/HP: 2d10+6 (17 hp, max 26 hp)

Why is its Hit Dice 2d10+6? Surely the Con 12 should only give it +1 hp per Hit Die?

 

[Celebrim]

Some of comments:

1) Green Men and martians in general don't wear armor. In fact, they don't even wear clothing much by Earth standards. So there is no reason why 'armor' should appear in the AC line. There is also no reason to think Greens have natural armor. They aren't scaly. They are just green.
2) A large sized humanoid with +6 dex is just a no-no. Green Men are not particularly dextrous except when it comes to using ranged weapons, and they are certainly not acrobats. In fact, there is pretty good indication that they aren't strong enough relative to their bulk to jump, much less tumble about. It's rifles that have made the Green Men feared and successful. Personally, I'd drop the racial bonus to dexterity entirely but give them a racial bonus to hit with range weapons similar to halflings. They are however fully multi-dextrous, and can employ four melee weapons or two ranged weapons simultaneously.
3) I don't see any reason to give them more than the usual +4 racial bonus to strength. Green men are more slender for their size than other races. I suspect most weigh around 800 lbs. Personally, I'd give them the following attribute line: +4 str, +2 con, -2 wis, -2 chr. The Green lack of empathy makes them poor animal handlers and at understanding others (and even themselves).
4) Green Men employ their tusks only when grappling, and not as part of their usual attackh reutine.
5) Racially they tend to evil. They enjoy cruelty and find other people's pain humorous. That's not neutral. Tars Tarkus is a rare good aligned Green.
6) At least on Barsoom, Greens are never clerics. Clerical duties are the sole province of the Thern race, but of course, they are all false clerics.

 

[Wolf72]

Assuming this includes the Multiweapon Fighting feat, the melee attack line should be "Longsword +2 (2d6+3), 2 handaxes +2 (1d8+1), tusks -1 (1d6+1)"

Longsword: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -2 two-weapon fighting primary hand penalty with light offhand weapon & MWF feat

Handaxe: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -2 two-weapon fighting off hand penalty with light offhand weapon & MWF feat

Tusks: BAB +2, +3 Str, -1 Siz, -5 secondary natural weapon penalty

The handaxe and tusk attacks are offhand/secondary attacks, so use half the Strength modifier on their damage rolls.

Con: Fixed

MWF replaces TWF: MWF is -2 primary and -6 secondary

Weapon and str ... need to fix

 

[Wolf72]

Some of comments:

1) Green Men and martians in general don't wear armor ...

2) A large sized humanoid with +6 dex is just a no-no. They are however fully multi-dextrous, and can employ four melee weapons or two ranged weapons simultaneously.

3) I don't see any reason to give them more than the usual +4 racial bonus to strength. Green men are more slender for their size than other races. I suspect most weigh around 800 lbs. Personally, I'd give them the following attribute line: +4 str, +2 con, -2 wis, -2 chr. The Green lack of empathy makes them poor animal handlers and at understanding others (and even themselves).
4) Green Men employ their tusks only when grappling, and not as part of their usual attackh reutine.
5) Racially they tend to evil. They enjoy cruelty and find other people's pain humorous. That's not neutral. Tars Tarkus is a rare good aligned Green.
6) At least on Barsoom, Greens are never clerics. Clerical duties are the sole province of the Thern race, but of course, they are all false clerics.

1. in a non defense rating setting, armor is kind of necessary, I think of studded leather as their 'chainmail' bikini ...
1a. Natural armor also represents a tougher exterior or muscular system capable of taking a beating, being a large monstrous humanoid, natural AC fits

2. I feel a +6 represents their natural agility and use of their arms. I did not want to give them multi-weapon mastery (like a marilith demon). I see your point though, I'd drop it to a +2 dex (which would simply overcome their size penalty)

( to be continued ... ah, better. was a TMI situation for sharing)
3. large size and +4 str? I could live with that, but my preference for stats would be +4 str, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 cha.

4. It's a 3x/Pathfinder world ... they use their tusks now.

5.torture and pit fighting is evil, devotion to honor and your chief is lawful. Neutral gives them the capacity to learn compassion ... or domination (swing it either way you like towards good/evil). When I read the books I always thought of them as uncaring rather than deliberately evil. I'm staying with Neutrals (they'd probably be better represented through some sort of personality trait rather than alignment.)

6. They've moved on ... and they're not on Barsoom (iirc there's a specific RPG for that anyway), they need to move into our 3x/PF world(s)

7. Psionics -- felt right to represent the general telepathic openness of Barsoom

8. I'm not that up on firearms. I do like the Radium style weapons though. I'd think solid range increments (200 ft), dmg of 1d8, special would be 2x dmg to structures (from the explosive nature of the bullets), ammo reloading is a standard action ... Green men as a move action b/c of their multi-limbed dexterity.

 

[Celebrim]

It's a 3x/Pathfinder world ...

Ok, well you've created a twink race par excellence. They have +6 racial to STR, +6 racial to DEX, large size, natural armor, 4 arms, multi-attack and pounce. Everyone in your party is going to want to shape-change into one. In 3x/Pathfinder context, they are broken beyond belief.

1. in a non defense rating setting, armor is kind of necessary, I think of studded leather as their 'chainmail' bikini ...
1a. Natural armor also represents a tougher exterior or muscular system capable of taking a beating, being a large monstrous humanoid, natural AC fits

John Carter kills them his bare hands without even meaning too. Granted, he's some sort of immortal God of War, but he doesn't generally do that to a Banth, Calot, or Sith.

4. It's a 3x/Pathfinder world ... they use their tusks now.

And even in 3x/Pathfinder, that doesn't follow. You don't have to write the tusks in as an alternative weapon. You just have to right something like: "Natural Weapons (ex): Martian Green Men have heavy bony knuckles and large fighting tusks. Their natural weapons do lethal rather than non-lethal damage, and in a grapple they do base 1d8 damage."

torture and pit fighting is evil, devotion to honor and your chief is lawful.

Ok, so "Usually Lawful Evil".

Neutral gives them the capacity to learn compassion ...

No, the fact that they aren't outer planar fiends that actually embody evil gives them the capacity to learn compassion (though, given that we've only seen 2 examples of them actually learning compassion out of thousands of green men, even "Always Lawful Evil" isn't out of the question).

When I read the books I always thought of them as uncaring rather than deliberately evil.

Completely uncaring and delighting in the suffering of others is pretty evil, whether deliberate or not.

7. Psionics -- felt right to represent the general telepathic openness of Barsoom

I don't know much about the Psionics rules, but I generally agree with 'very weak natural telepaths'.

8. I'm not that up on firearms. I do like the Radium style weapons though. I'd think solid range increments (200 ft), dmg of 1d8, special would be 2x dmg to structures (from the explosive nature of the bullets), ammo reloading is a standard action ... Green men as a move action b/c of their multi-limbed dexterity.

The actual Radium guns from the books would be grossly OP, considering that they are used by the Greenies not only as anti-personnel weapons but to engage titanic capital warships and fortifications.

A typical modern semi-automatic rifle has a stat line similar to:

Range Increment: 200', Damage: 2d8+4 (19-20/x3), Accuracy: +1, Penetration: +8, Recoil: 4, RoF: Triple, Ammo: 8 round clip

The Radium Rifles are the military grade TL+1(or higher) equivalent of that, probably something like:

Radium Rifle: Range Increment: 400', Damage: 2d6+6 (19-20/x3), Accuracy: +3, Penetration: +9, Recoil: 3, RoF: Triple, Ammo: 100 round clip, Special: Effective range is line of sight, as a radium rifle can engage targets even in orbit. Each +2 BAB allows the wielder to attempt shots up to one additional range increment away. When fired in sunlight, ammo explodes on impact doing 2d6 sonic damage over a 5' radius. Rounds fired at night will explode at sunrise unless buried or disposed of.

 

[Cleon]

MWF replaces TWF: MWF is -2 primary and -6 secondary

Multiweapon fighting reduces the penalties by 2 for primary attacks and 6 for secondary attacks.

i.e. the primary attack goes from -6 to -4 (a reduction by 2) and the offhand attacks goes from -10 to -4 (a reduction by 6), or, if the offhand weapons are light, the penalties go from -4 to -2 (primary) and -8 to -2 (offhand).

It has the same -4/-4 or -2/-2 result as the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, it's just poorly explained in the pathfinder version of the feat. The wording's clearer in the SRD version of Multiweapon Fighting, which has "Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by 2 with the primary hand and reduced by 6 with off hands".

Look at creatures in the Pathfinder Bestiary with the Multiweapon Fighting feat like the Mudra Skeleton. Its primary shortsword and offhand shortswords both have a +1 melee attack. If it worked the way you're arguing it'd have +1 primary, -3 secondary.

 

[Wolf72]

Ok, well you've created a twink race par excellence. They have +6 racial to STR, +6 racial to DEX, large size, natural armor, 4 arms, multi-attack and pounce. Everyone in your party is going to want to shape-change into one. In 3x/Pathfinder context, they are broken beyond belief.

...

man ... I have got to learn to split quotes like that!

(working in reverse seems easier to me)

Radium Firearms ... OP for sure.

Alignment: You make a good point, but I'd still rather turn them into more Neutral race. I should include "Inspired by, but not fully truthful to ..."

Natural weapons and actual weapons: Graci Cleon for pointing out the Multi-weapon fighting. Celebrim: I don't see the need to create a whole new line of combat abilities when they're simply adding a natural attack to their routine.

Twink Race? I guess it's all in how much you let your players have, I'm not sure I'd be the type to let them be a PC race. Besides, I did knock them down a bit. I don't see them as any scarier than say using the advanced template on some standard monsters in the Bestiary.

(Edit Notes: dropped dex to +2, natural armor to +1, Str to +4, dropped bonus to acrobatics)