D&D (2024) Greyhawk 2024: comparing Oerth and Earth

Werthead

Explorer
I think it's a bit unimaginative that all these settings are Earth-like spheres. Where are the discs, toxoids, hollow spheres, dyson spheres, ringworlds, infinite planes, shattered worlds etc?!
Oerth is the central planet of its system, with the Sun orbiting it.

Mystara is a hollow planet with tunnels at the poles linking to an "internal" planet with a microstar in the core.

In 5E they did blow up Dark Sun altogether, leaving behind a devastated hellscape orbiting a black hole, but then wimped out on it and renamed it in the final release.
 

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Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
This is the map by Gygax, in his 1980 World of Greyhawk "Folio".
Greyhawk 1980 Gygax, World of Greyhawk Folio, original, with coasts and mountains only.png


This is the map by Gygax, in the Glossography of his 1983 World of Greyhawk "Box Set".
1731273653411.jpeg


The area covered beyond the 1980 and 2024 Greyhawk map is geographically reasonable, and helps give a sense of context for Greyhawk.

When when charting beyond Greyhawk there seems no reason not to use this wider map.

This Gygax canon helps locate the pertinent 2024 references to areas outside the 2024 map.
 

Oerth is the central planet of its system, with the Sun orbiting it.

Mystara is a hollow planet with tunnels at the poles linking to an "internal" planet with a microstar in the core.

In 5E they did blow up Dark Sun altogether, leaving behind a devastated hellscape orbiting a black hole, but then wimped out on it and renamed it in the final release.

No they backed away from Shatter Space being Darksun, now it's it's own thing.
 

Voadam

Legend
I think it's a bit unimaginative that all these settings are Earth-like spheres. Where are the discs, toroids, hollow spheres, dyson spheres, ringworlds, infinite planes, shattered worlds etc?!
I think spelljammer had some of that but it’s been a while since I read practical planetology.

Mystara had a hollow world too.
 

I think it's a bit unimaginative that all these settings are Earth-like spheres. Where are the discs, toroids, hollow spheres, dyson spheres, ringworlds, infinite planes, shattered worlds etc?!

Realmspace has some weird naughty word like that, Garden is world that is basically a giant plant and the Toril nation of Wa wanted to colonize it.

There was other really weird planets too, like flat beholder world.

Even Toril is kind of weird thanks to Abeir post Spellplague, sibling worlds that keep swapping land masses, including continents, and phasing in and out of each other. That is weird.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
Realmspace has some weird naughty word like that, Garden is world that is basically a giant plant and the Toril nation of Wa wanted to colonize it.
In an odd way, Yggdrasill makes Oerth a "garden world". I am leaning toward the Border Ethereal Plane being the "spirit world" for the folkbeliefs of many cultures. Importantly, it is part of the Material Plane and influences the material. Yggdrasil can makes sense as an Ethereal Tree, whose branches are the structure of the layers of the sky, and whose roots are the structure of the expanse of the earth. (Of course the tips of the branches and roots can reach into the Astral and its alignments.) Mainly, Yggdrasill is a shamanic method of inducing spirit journeys to travel its roots. Something like outofbody projection with teleportation and planeshift via the tree journey. At the same, the Tree is the world itself where everything interconnects everything else. This is why the Tree can function as a "terrifying steed" for spirit journeys. Where the tree can be seen as a force within the Ethereal Plane, the planet itself is a kind of "Garden world".
 

In an odd way, Yggdrasill makes Oerth a "garden world". I am leaning toward the Border Ethereal Plane being the "spirit world" for the folkbeliefs of many cultures. Importantly, it is part of the Material Plane and influences the material. Yggdrasil can makes sense as an Ethereal Tree, whose branches are the structure of the layers of the sky, and whose roots are the structure of the expanse of the earth. (Of course the tips of the branches and roots can reach into the Astral and its alignments.) Mainly, Yggdrasill is a shamanic method of inducing spirit journeys to travel its roots. Something like outofbody projection with teleportation and planeshift via the tree journey. At the same, the Tree is the world itself where everything interconnects everything else. This is why the Tree can function as a "terrifying steed" for spirit journeys. Where the tree can be seen as a force within the Ethereal Plane, the planet itself is a kind of "Garden world".

The planet was called Garden, it isn't a Garden world as such, just a giant wild space plant.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
The planet was called Garden, it isn't a Garden world as such, just a giant wild space plant.
Ah, I was thinking of things like Spelljammer where there is an Elf solar system that is a tree.

In some sense Oerth (and Earth in the context of Yggdrasill) is similarly a kind of Tree where sky, earth, and underearth are a treelike single living organism, that becomes bare during the winter season and springs to lush life during the spring season.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
The latitudes between 60° and 70° are vital for representing northerly ethnicities. Despite the Greyhawk map being "Americesque" (I think this is the first time I have used this term) − including North, Central, and South Americas − it lacks these northerly areas. The Greyhawk map ends at 55° and even the wider map of East Oerik ends at about 62°. Denmark is within the latitudes of the map but not its context within the Nordic Lands.

With regard to the Greyhawk map, obviously it needs to be Indigenous Canadians and Indigenous Alaskans who need to be making the following decisions. Tentatively, as far as I can tell, the following might work. I am unsure where to put the regions of Siberia-Alaska-Yukon-Northwest. Probably they will be regions across Hyperborea across a vast swath of dense forest. It seems the Land of Black Ice is a suitable location to represent the Nunavut, the main region of the Inuit. Most of it comprises islands whose sea freezes over during winters, allowing for a livelihood of seminomadic migrations, mainly fishing and hunting.

For the Black Ice to work for these Indigenous, it must be suitably inhabitable. In other words, its climate and microclimates compare well to the areas of Nunavut beyond the 60° latitude.

The "black ice" of the Black Ice is harmless and drinkable when it melts. As far as I am aware, its only two qualities are that the region itself is unexpectedly cool for its latitude, and that any water that freezes becomes a blue-black crystal instead of a colorless crystal. So far, the reason for this regional phenomenon is unexplained by the mages of Flanaess, but is assumed to be magical nature. When black ice melts it becomes normal clear water again. The fluffiness sotospeak of the snow makes it appear more whitish against the midnight color of the solid glacial ice. Water brought in from elsewhere likewise freezes this way while within the Black Ice. It is normal water despite its surprising crystalline color when freezing.

Black Ice includes many geothermic regions that melt ice via hot springs. These local oases provide water sources for fish and other wildlife, but these areas remain treeless, and some freeze up seasonally. Generally speaking, the land can support Inuit whose culture maintains the skills necessary to adapt to this regional environment.

Note, the fantasy version of Inuit arent Flan and are significantly distinct from Flan who correspond other Indigenous in North America, but they share prehistoric ancestry.


The 1980 and 1983 map of East Oerik is in a post above, and depicts most of the borders of Black Ice. Its upper peninsula is cut off, but there isnt much more to it. Below is a closeup of the Black Ice from the cartographer Anna B Meyers. Its political boundaries refer to the Common Year 596. However the 2024 Greyhawk map is two decades earlier in CY 576 so the political boundaries never happened, but most of it is recognizable anyway. In the context of this thread and its discussion of latitudes, it is clear that the Icy Bay freezes over entirely every winter, and this is a normal annual cycle. From the looks of the map below, it appears to be early winter when the snows have begun to arrive but the bay hasnt frozen over yet. I love this map because it is very beautiful and conveys a clear sense of the terrains that the 1980 and 2024 canons describe.

The Black Ice seems useful for fantasy adventures that draw inspiration from reallife Inuit.

1731367881468.png
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him

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