thedungeondelver
Adventurer
Right, like bezatu and tanri were the same things as demons and devils.
(Seriously, what's the point in changing things like that?)
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D&D 4E Greyhawk 4e: Back to the Beginning...
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Right, like bezatu and tanri were the same things as demons and devils.
(Seriously, what's the point in changing things like that?)
Jack of Shadows
First Post
With all that said, above, would I like to see a Greyhawk reboot in this style?
NO. I really wouldn't.
Why? Two reasons:
1) I'd rather see something new. They're sitting on TWO, count 'em, TWO settings that lost to Eberron in the design project, both good enough to make it to the final three. Both could be made from scratch in 4e's image as they pleased.
2) Greyhawk is such that its fans are so divided in desire, as this thread makes evident, that no one can please them fully. Greyhawk is this family Teddy Bear that started out brand new and whole, then got a bit worn on the edges, and the sadistic brother tore the stuffing out, so Dad re-stuffed it, cut out the torn up parts and sewed it back together, to have it get hit by lightning, then repatched, then left in the driveway and backed over by the family SUV, then repatched, etc.... until it's a third of its original size, has buttons for eyes, and a bunch of fans caring for it out of memory for what it represented to them. Leave the damn bear alone, and go get a new one.Let the fans argue over what the original color of the teddy bear was, or where its eyes are really supposed to go, or what material the original stuffing was made from...
Valid points Henry,
But you have to consider that a significant number of their customers continue to ask them when they'll see a new Greyhawk. I'd be surprised if they get through a Con with out being repeatedly asked about it.
They're a victim of their own success really because of Living Greyhawk and the prominence of Greyhawk deities in the previous edition.
When it comes down to a business decision between a product you know you have customers for and one that is completely unknown it's not a hard call.
JoS.
The Little Raven
First Post
Not a direct comparison. Baatezu and Tanar'ri were just the devils and demons of the previous edition, renamed. Eladrin are a reconceived version of the high elf/gray elf archetype to make them a big more fey.
Q: What's the point in changing your post font to be different than everyone else?
A: Easy connection between the font (name) used and you (the race).
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Well, this idea sounds horrible.
I really hope that WotC doesn't go this route for Greyhawk. I like the established continuity, and throwing it all away while shoe-horning in the PoL planar structure and the new races just doesn't seem to work very well.
"OtherHawk" already sounds like a pale reflection of Greyhawk.
I really hope that WotC doesn't go this route for Greyhawk. I like the established continuity, and throwing it all away while shoe-horning in the PoL planar structure and the new races just doesn't seem to work very well.
"OtherHawk" already sounds like a pale reflection of Greyhawk.
Shemeska
Adventurer
They're exactly the same, just using different names because of outside pressures on TSR at the time in the public arena. A vrock -is- a type I demon. Same creature, different name. [And yes, shock and amazement as Mourn and I agree on a point here. Take pictures folks, this might not happen again for a while.
]Like others have said, 4e is using older names for entirely different entities. Eladrin went from being manifest immortal exemplars of benevolent chaos to now being a slightly different type of elf. Archons went from being vaguely gnostic inspired celestial heralds of benevolent law to being evil, crazy elementals.
Gold Roger
First Post
Just in case feedback on this thread does anything to influence wotc actually doing this, I'll add this:
I'd definitely buy this and would probably play in it as well.
I'd definitely buy this and would probably play in it as well.
Gold Roger
First Post
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Gold Roger
First Post
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CruelSummerLord
First Post
Speaking as a die-hard Greyhawk fan, and one of the most regular and frequent contributors to Canonfire, I can only say that this is the absolute best thing to happen to Greyhawk in the last twenty years.
No more of the absurd roller-coaster changes produced by Living Greyhawk.
No more of the impact of the Greyhawk Wars, which destroyed so many great adventuring ideas.
No more of Sean K. Reynolds' influence on the setting.
A blank, pure slate to start fresh, clean and anew, canon-free and free of all the garbage that's become stuck to the setting.
My only hope is that gnomes and half-orcs continue to be available as player races, and that they don't arbitrarily shoehorn the dragonborn and tieflings in by messing up any of the nations already established in place.
I'd rather not have to deal with the new 4E races at all, given how much they clash with Greyhawk's humanocentric feel, but one can't have everything. One way to work them into the setting, perhaps, is to have them slowly migrate into the Flanaess from somewhere else, say over the Solnor Ocean or the southern jungles. Their empire has collapsed, and so they've taken to mercenary work to support themselves, just as it says in the 4E Player's Handbook, but they don't otherwise necessitate a massive retconning of Flanaess history.
Much of the post-From the Ashes development can be kept as well, as regards history, personalities and such...it's just that none of the major oerth-shaking events happened. You can have them happen if you like, but now they won't be shoved down everybody's throats.
No more of the absurd roller-coaster changes produced by Living Greyhawk.
No more of the impact of the Greyhawk Wars, which destroyed so many great adventuring ideas.
No more of Sean K. Reynolds' influence on the setting.
A blank, pure slate to start fresh, clean and anew, canon-free and free of all the garbage that's become stuck to the setting.
My only hope is that gnomes and half-orcs continue to be available as player races, and that they don't arbitrarily shoehorn the dragonborn and tieflings in by messing up any of the nations already established in place.
I'd rather not have to deal with the new 4E races at all, given how much they clash with Greyhawk's humanocentric feel, but one can't have everything. One way to work them into the setting, perhaps, is to have them slowly migrate into the Flanaess from somewhere else, say over the Solnor Ocean or the southern jungles. Their empire has collapsed, and so they've taken to mercenary work to support themselves, just as it says in the 4E Player's Handbook, but they don't otherwise necessitate a massive retconning of Flanaess history.
Much of the post-From the Ashes development can be kept as well, as regards history, personalities and such...it's just that none of the major oerth-shaking events happened. You can have them happen if you like, but now they won't be shoved down everybody's throats.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
Ok so now I have a working name I will use for this when I tell all my friends (att he comic shop we play at on saterdays) Ultimate Greyhawk 4e...
and as far as I am concerened it will be the best thing ever done...people who are new make the world up as they go, well people in the know rehash there fav stories with the PCs as the main characters...I wonder what good old tenser and Mordey will look like...
Well with your new title I hope you can Develop some of this for us.
Could you atleast show some of this up the chain of command. if they are working on it or thinking it over it shows some intrest...If not it might spark an idea...
by the way Sign me up for Ultimate Greyhawk
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