D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[Marandahir]

Yes, a more accurate description for sure. A world with the Circle of Eight is not low magic in the traditional sense.

Also, I agree that the amount of magic found in monster lairs has always been ludicrous.

Low Magic in fantasy is that magic is rare and powerful and mysterious, not that the users of it aren't powerful.

 

[Clint_L]

Low Magic in fantasy is that magic is rare and powerful and mysterious, not that the users of it aren't powerful.

It's just hard to square with D&D's design, which has always assumed that magic is commonplace. The Monster Manual alone requires magic to be plentiful.

You can make a low magic setting, and people do. With significant effort. I don't see how that would work for the sample setting in the DMG. Greyhawk 2024 has to accommodate the main design principles of the game, including all of the species, creatures, magic items, etc. of the 2024 books.

I'm assuming they will leave things like demographics relatively vague, so that DMs can make whatever assumptions best fit with their vision of the game. But you just have to look at the covers of the new books to see that this is not being pitched as a low magic fantasy experience, and Greyhawk will be part of those books.

 

[Parmandur]

It's just hard to square with D&D's design, which has always assumed that magic is commonplace. The Monster Manual alone requires magic to be plentiful.

You can make a low magic setting, and people do. With significant effort. I don't see how that would work for the sample setting in the DMG. Greyhawk 2024 has to accommodate the main design principles of the game, including all of the species, creatures, magic items, etc. of the 2024 books.

I don't see how it works with the 1E books even.

 

[Pauln6]

Low Magic in fantasy is that magic is rare and powerful and mysterious, not that the users of it aren't powerful.

It's just hard to square with D&D's design, which has always assumed that magic is commonplace. The Monster Manual alone requires magic to be plentiful.

You can make a low magic setting, and people do. With significant effort. I don't see how that would work for the sample setting in the DMG. Greyhawk 2024 has to accommodate the main design principles of the game, including all of the species, creatures, magic items, etc. of the 2024 books.

I'm assuming they will leave things like demographics relatively vague, so that DMs can make whatever assumptions best fit with their vision of the game. But you just have to look at the covers of the new books to see that this is not being pitched as a low magic fantasy experience, and Greyhawk will be part of those books.

I think sidebars with advice on what changes to make for each level would be cool. And how common should be a common magic item etc.

 

[Quartz]

It's just hard to square with D&D's design, which has always assumed that magic is commonplace.

Really? Don't you mean that the PCs commonly encounter magic?

 

[Marandahir]

Really? Don't you mean that the PCs commonly encounter magic?

This. Magic isn't common in the setting. The PCs aren't common either.

 

[Hussar]

But that’s simply not true. It’s not supported at all by the sources.

There’s a sixth or seventh level wizard hanging around in Hommlet. There’s a sixth or seventh level wizard hanging out in Orlane. There’s quite specifically a magic shop in Saltmarsh.

There’s an entire country led by a Demi-god filled with demons and the undead.

There are many, many locations with clerics, wizards and various other casters living there.

The idea that magic is rare in Greyhawk is just not supported by the actual text.

 

[Pauln6]

But that’s simply not true. It’s not supported at all by the sources.

There’s a sixth or seventh level wizard hanging around in Hommlet. There’s a sixth or seventh level wizard hanging out in Orlane. There’s quite specifically a magic shop in Saltmarsh.

There’s an entire country led by a Demi-god filled with demons and the undead.

There are many, many locations with clerics, wizards and various other casters living there.

The idea that magic is rare in Greyhawk is just not supported by the actual text.

There are a few instances of retired wizards working in shops as well. Not all the modules were written consistently, but there was some guidance on class dynamics and it was anticipated that the majority of character classes were fighters. I bet that is not reflective of current real world game demographics.

 

[Mind of tempest]

There are a few instances of retired wizards working in shops as well. Not all the modules were written consistently, but there was some guidance on class dynamics and it was anticipated that the majority of character classes were fighters. I bet that is not reflective of current real world game demographics.

is that part of the line of thinking that made fighter the default class? the if nothing else you get to be a fighter

 

[Hussar]

There are a few instances of retired wizards working in shops as well. Not all the modules were written consistently, but there was some guidance on class dynamics and it was anticipated that the majority of character classes were fighters. I bet that is not reflective of current real world game demographics.

But, that's the thing. You don't get to pick and choose. It's not like it was rare for classed casters to be present in virtually every listed settlement. Did you have magic shops? Well, no. Of course not. That wasn't a thing in AD&D. But, this idea that it would be weird to see a non-human in Greyhawk just ignores far too much of what was presented. Greyhawk might not be as high magic as, say, Faerun, fair enough. But that hardly makes it low magic.

I just don't know where this idea comes from. And why it persists. It's such a bizarre read on the material.