Desdichado
Hero
Yeah, but Saruman uses what appears to be gunpowder.GnomeWorks said:
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Gunpowder in your games
- Thread starter Gellion
- Start date
GnomeWorks
Adventurer
Joshua Dyal said:
But it wasn't very common, only Saruman used it, and it only showed up once.
IMO, that's not being used in a setting... any setting, really, could have firearms for one adventure as a sort of exotic treat or something, but they shouldn't be commonplace or used extensively. If used in a setting not built for it, they should be rare, irreplacable, and once you run out of ammo, that's it.
Klaatu B. Nikto
First Post
Gunpowder was discovered by Chinese alchemists looking for an elixer of immortality. I doubt it worked since the hut exploded IIRC.
As for the use of gunpowder, the Chinese used crude rockets in the 10th Century tho they also lobbed bombs with catapults. Their oldest cannon dates back to 1290 tho references to cannons go back further.
(from http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)
Personally, I don't see a problem other than some are afraid the introduction of gunpowder will lead to something out of a John Woo movie. I think Gygax said something to the effect as well. Bah! It's not much different than those Chinese 'rapid fire' crossbows.
Besides that, Ash used gunpowder to even the odds against the Deadites.
As for the use of gunpowder, the Chinese used crude rockets in the 10th Century tho they also lobbed bombs with catapults. Their oldest cannon dates back to 1290 tho references to cannons go back further.
(from http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)
Personally, I don't see a problem other than some are afraid the introduction of gunpowder will lead to something out of a John Woo movie. I think Gygax said something to the effect as well. Bah! It's not much different than those Chinese 'rapid fire' crossbows.
Besides that, Ash used gunpowder to even the odds against the Deadites.
Jeremy757
First Post
mmadsen said:
Actually I cant entirely take credit for this. I got this idea from the gun presented in Dragon 301. They didn't do as much damage and were cheaper. I made mine conform more to the Renaissance weapons presented in the DMG but I stole the touch attack idea.
Guns are new technology in my campaign, only existing for less then a generation. They are no schools you can go to train and drill with the gun. Nations do not use them in there armies. The gun is an oddity in my campaign a by product of the invention of smoke powder. And the gun is an Exotic Weapon Proficiency. They are very low tech guns and they haven't been around long enough for any one to care about getting good with one.
Were not talking about Real Life we are talking about a fantasy gun that uses a magical alchemical powder for a propellent.
There expensive because it takes delicate craftmanship to make a smokepowder gun, its a tricky thing it is.
Fragile, blow a breech - what ever you call it - on a natural one you get a dud.
Check your DMG page 162, a bullet weighs twice as much as a crossbow bolt. Magic of Faerun page 165, "it takes an ouce of smokepowder to shoot a firearm once". So actually I made an error. It actually takes 3 ounces of material to fire a pistol or rifle once.
Remember this is D&D and Forgotten Realms not Real Life. And I am in no way beholden to the rules of Real Life or the History of the World
Ill check it out when I get a chance. Thanks for the link.
Sejs
First Post
There is gunpowder in my campaign world. It was developed by the (one remaining, insular) dwarven kingdom in cooperation with their gnomish allies. It's methods of production are a tightly kept secret. They're quite willing to sell gunpowder to people who come to them to buy it... who'll then be gouged like miners in a whorehouse on the price: "let's see here.. that'll be 250 crowns for the powder, 20 for the labor, another 5 for the keg, 17 for materials, 7 crowns 4 silver in regulatory fees, there's a 4 crown registration fee for purchasing it, administration costs..." they'll more or less just keep tacking on costs until you say stop. Most outside folks don't quite grasp the subtilties of dwarven haggling. But hey, if some outlander is willing to pay 600 gold for 250 gold worth of blackpowder, then alls the better, eh?
There are dwarven and gnomish rifle brigades, but they're mostly for home defense. Otherwise, they'd have to either carry alot of powder with them, or make it themselves while afield. Neither of which is that attractive a prospect. And while there isn't much of a dwarven navy per se, they do have some very well defended sea ports.
One of the last things most attempted invaders into the dwarven homeland think is "Huh.. wonder what those barrels are that they're cramming into the arrow slits."
...shortly before being introduced to grape-shot.
There are dwarven and gnomish rifle brigades, but they're mostly for home defense. Otherwise, they'd have to either carry alot of powder with them, or make it themselves while afield. Neither of which is that attractive a prospect. And while there isn't much of a dwarven navy per se, they do have some very well defended sea ports.
One of the last things most attempted invaders into the dwarven homeland think is "Huh.. wonder what those barrels are that they're cramming into the arrow slits."
...shortly before being introduced to grape-shot.
the Jester
Legend
Sunpowder and stuff
Well!
It's very gratifying that several people asked for the specifics on sunpowder... so I'll post 'em!
DISTILL SUNLIGHT
Transmutation
Level: Light 4
Components: V, S, DF, M
Casting Time: 3 hours
Range: Special
Effect: See text
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This ritual allows you to distill sunlight into a thin volatile fluid. One vial is created per two caster levels. This spell must be cast under the sun in a cloudless sky, making it hard to cast in many places and seasons. Further, distilled sunlight evaporates within 2d4 hours unless sealed (in which case it lasts up to the caster’s level in days).
The spell distills the sunlight into previously prepared holy water. As a liquid, sunlight has the following properties:
-It radiates a 60’ glow akin to daylight;
-It is warm to the touch. Drinking a flask of sunlight will heal 1d8 points of cold damage take in the last hour. Also, it will dry up to 4 square feet of wet surface per flask.
-It acts as double-strength holy water.
-It is extremely flammable. If lit it will burn in only a single round but a vial will cause 3d4 damage.
Material compoents: in addition to the required holy water, this spell requires 200 gp in incense and herbs plus 50 gp/vial to be distilled.
SUNPOWDER:
The process of tranforming distilled sunlight into sunpowder is a secret held tightly by the orcs of Valonia. They share it with no one, and only a few faithful clergy of Galador are allowed the knowledge. One vial of liquid sunlight will yield one 'charge' of sunpowder.
Sunpowder, much like distilled sunlight, is highly volatile and dangerous. It shares all the characteristics of distilled sunlight, but as a powder it can be used in a fashion very similar to gunpowder. In general, one charge will be enough sunpowder to fire a typical orcish pistol or musket once, and multiple charges used together can have greater effect (for example, it takes 20 charges to fire a cannon).
Sunpowder can also be used as an explosive; in this case, the number of charges used will increase both the damage and the size of the explosion.
Number of Charges- Damage- Radius- Save DC
5 3d6 10' 13
10 3d6 15' 13
20 4d6 20' 15
30 5d6 30' 17
50 5d6 40' 17
100 6d6 50' 19
Larger amounts of sunpowder can make even larger explosives.
Finally....
The PISTOLEER (or Musketeer)
Pistoleers are expert with sunpowder weaponry. Valonian orcs who have trained extensively, their existence is mostly a secret; they are renowned for their amazing skill and speed with a gun.
Hit Die: d10
Prerequisites: Must be an orc or half-orc; must have at least one sunpowder weapon proficiency. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick-Draw, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (pistol or musket). Base Attack +5. All pistoleers are trained by the Orcish government in Valonia, in conjunction with the Church of the Light, and are carefully screened for loyalty to the government and/or the church. All pistoleers are thus either orcish loyalists, lawful, or followers of the Light.
Class Skills: Alchemy (int), Craft (int), Intimidate (cha), Jump (str), Ride (dex), Spot (wis). Skill points per level: 2 + int bonus.
Base Attack: Good (as fighter)
Good Saves: Fort and Ref
Poor Saves: Will
Level- Special Abilities Gained
1 Pistol Whip
2 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +1d6
3 Improved Rapid Reload
4 -
5 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +2d6
6 Double Trouble
7 Uncanny Dodge (dex bonus to AC)
8 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +3d6
9 Dodge Bullets
10 Running Attack
CLASS FEATURES
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The pistoleer gains proficiency in all sunpowder weapons of his size or smaller.
Pistol Whip (Ex): In times of need to pistoleer can use a sunpowder pistol or musket as a bludgeoning weapon. A pistol deals 1d6 points of damage when used this way; a musket, 1d8. This use of a sunpowder weapon will only cause it damage if the pistoleer’s natural attack roll is a 4 or less, in which case the weapon will not fire effectively until it is repaired (a Craft check, DC20, with the proper tools is required; this costs 50 gp in materials and requires an hour).
Sunpowder Sneak Attack (Ex): The pistoleer can make sneak attacks with sunpowder weapons. This ability cannot be used when the weapon is being used to pistol whip someone, only when shooting.
Improved Rapid Reload (Ex): A pistoleer can reload a sunpowder weapon as part of normal movement.
Double Trouble (Ex): When a pistoleer fires a pistol in each hand he suffers only a -2 penalty to attack with each hand, as if possessed of the Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats and the pistols were melee weapons.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): When flat-footed or attacked by an invisible opponent, the pistoleer retains his dex bonus to AC. If the pistoleer gains the uncanny dodge ability from another class, his pistoleer levels do not stack with the other class levels (unlike many other classes that gain the uncanny dodge ability).
Dodge Bullets (Ex): The pistoleer gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC against all projectile attacks, such as arrows, bullets, thrown daggers, etc. This bonus does not apply against missiles of size Medium or larger.
Running Attack (Ex): The pistoleer with a loaded sunpowder weapon can fire once even if hustling or running. He suffers a -4 circumstance penalty to this shot.
Whew! Hope this is useful and enjoyable for you folks, now enough about my game and back to yer regularly scheduled thread...
Well!
It's very gratifying that several people asked for the specifics on sunpowder... so I'll post 'em!
DISTILL SUNLIGHT
Transmutation
Level: Light 4
Components: V, S, DF, M
Casting Time: 3 hours
Range: Special
Effect: See text
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This ritual allows you to distill sunlight into a thin volatile fluid. One vial is created per two caster levels. This spell must be cast under the sun in a cloudless sky, making it hard to cast in many places and seasons. Further, distilled sunlight evaporates within 2d4 hours unless sealed (in which case it lasts up to the caster’s level in days).
The spell distills the sunlight into previously prepared holy water. As a liquid, sunlight has the following properties:
-It radiates a 60’ glow akin to daylight;
-It is warm to the touch. Drinking a flask of sunlight will heal 1d8 points of cold damage take in the last hour. Also, it will dry up to 4 square feet of wet surface per flask.
-It acts as double-strength holy water.
-It is extremely flammable. If lit it will burn in only a single round but a vial will cause 3d4 damage.
Material compoents: in addition to the required holy water, this spell requires 200 gp in incense and herbs plus 50 gp/vial to be distilled.
SUNPOWDER:
The process of tranforming distilled sunlight into sunpowder is a secret held tightly by the orcs of Valonia. They share it with no one, and only a few faithful clergy of Galador are allowed the knowledge. One vial of liquid sunlight will yield one 'charge' of sunpowder.
Sunpowder, much like distilled sunlight, is highly volatile and dangerous. It shares all the characteristics of distilled sunlight, but as a powder it can be used in a fashion very similar to gunpowder. In general, one charge will be enough sunpowder to fire a typical orcish pistol or musket once, and multiple charges used together can have greater effect (for example, it takes 20 charges to fire a cannon).
Sunpowder can also be used as an explosive; in this case, the number of charges used will increase both the damage and the size of the explosion.
Number of Charges- Damage- Radius- Save DC
5 3d6 10' 13
10 3d6 15' 13
20 4d6 20' 15
30 5d6 30' 17
50 5d6 40' 17
100 6d6 50' 19
Larger amounts of sunpowder can make even larger explosives.
Finally....
The PISTOLEER (or Musketeer)
Pistoleers are expert with sunpowder weaponry. Valonian orcs who have trained extensively, their existence is mostly a secret; they are renowned for their amazing skill and speed with a gun.
Hit Die: d10
Prerequisites: Must be an orc or half-orc; must have at least one sunpowder weapon proficiency. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick-Draw, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (pistol or musket). Base Attack +5. All pistoleers are trained by the Orcish government in Valonia, in conjunction with the Church of the Light, and are carefully screened for loyalty to the government and/or the church. All pistoleers are thus either orcish loyalists, lawful, or followers of the Light.
Class Skills: Alchemy (int), Craft (int), Intimidate (cha), Jump (str), Ride (dex), Spot (wis). Skill points per level: 2 + int bonus.
Base Attack: Good (as fighter)
Good Saves: Fort and Ref
Poor Saves: Will
Level- Special Abilities Gained
1 Pistol Whip
2 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +1d6
3 Improved Rapid Reload
4 -
5 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +2d6
6 Double Trouble
7 Uncanny Dodge (dex bonus to AC)
8 Sunpowder Sneak Attack +3d6
9 Dodge Bullets
10 Running Attack
CLASS FEATURES
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The pistoleer gains proficiency in all sunpowder weapons of his size or smaller.
Pistol Whip (Ex): In times of need to pistoleer can use a sunpowder pistol or musket as a bludgeoning weapon. A pistol deals 1d6 points of damage when used this way; a musket, 1d8. This use of a sunpowder weapon will only cause it damage if the pistoleer’s natural attack roll is a 4 or less, in which case the weapon will not fire effectively until it is repaired (a Craft check, DC20, with the proper tools is required; this costs 50 gp in materials and requires an hour).
Sunpowder Sneak Attack (Ex): The pistoleer can make sneak attacks with sunpowder weapons. This ability cannot be used when the weapon is being used to pistol whip someone, only when shooting.
Improved Rapid Reload (Ex): A pistoleer can reload a sunpowder weapon as part of normal movement.
Double Trouble (Ex): When a pistoleer fires a pistol in each hand he suffers only a -2 penalty to attack with each hand, as if possessed of the Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats and the pistols were melee weapons.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): When flat-footed or attacked by an invisible opponent, the pistoleer retains his dex bonus to AC. If the pistoleer gains the uncanny dodge ability from another class, his pistoleer levels do not stack with the other class levels (unlike many other classes that gain the uncanny dodge ability).
Dodge Bullets (Ex): The pistoleer gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC against all projectile attacks, such as arrows, bullets, thrown daggers, etc. This bonus does not apply against missiles of size Medium or larger.
Running Attack (Ex): The pistoleer with a loaded sunpowder weapon can fire once even if hustling or running. He suffers a -4 circumstance penalty to this shot.
Whew! Hope this is useful and enjoyable for you folks, now enough about my game and back to yer regularly scheduled thread...
Last edited:
Azure Trance
First Post
Yoink (with <3).
IIRC though this isn't my first yoinking. You made some nice pole-arm feats back in the day
IIRC though this isn't my first yoinking. You made some nice pole-arm feats back in the day
NoOneofConsequence
First Post
Thanks for the sunpowder stuff.
The pistolier is kinda cool, but seven feats to qualify seems a bit steep. What's the thinking behind the sneak attack?
The pistolier is kinda cool, but seven feats to qualify seems a bit steep. What's the thinking behind the sneak attack?
frankthedm
First Post
Re: Distill Sunlight and Nitro
especially with the healing quality! [ well sorta]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mmadsen
In a world of magic swords and magic shields, I'm not sure I'd make blackpowder pistol and musket balls touch-attack weapons. A breastplate -- especially a magical one -- should deflect a pistol ball, after all.
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iwould say, off the top of my sleep deprived head, a 2 point per size of weapon over tiny armor ignore. derringer +0, heavy pistol +2, rifle +4. this lets good armor still have some value. i also do this for seige weapons.
especially with the healing quality! [ well sorta]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mmadsen
In a world of magic swords and magic shields, I'm not sure I'd make blackpowder pistol and musket balls touch-attack weapons. A breastplate -- especially a magical one -- should deflect a pistol ball, after all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
iwould say, off the top of my sleep deprived head, a 2 point per size of weapon over tiny armor ignore. derringer +0, heavy pistol +2, rifle +4. this lets good armor still have some value. i also do this for seige weapons.
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