Guns in a fantasy setting

[Elf Witch]

I have never had an aversion to guns in fantasy, but I have had an aversion to guns in D&D. Its nothing on a pure mechanical basis - you can make it work. But it just never fit for me perception-wise. I cut my teeth on 1e - there, your mid-level fighter could stroll through an open field just ignoring arrow fire -- even if they did hit my great AC (based on Dex and Armor), that piddly 3hp of damage really was not going to stop my guy from taking is normal action. Archers are what you killed last cuz they were not a "threat".

Now, that is just a trope of the system. Even under 3e and 4e, you need an archer "build" in order to be dangerous. A commoner picking up a bow is back to 1e in my mindset ("fire your bow, then I will run my sword through you heart or incinerate you with magic!"). But since I am not sitting there watching a ton of war movies based on the bow and arrow period, it just faded into the gamest background like many other things.

Guns are a different matter. While the early guns a varying degrees of effectiveness, that is not what pops into my mind when the word "gun" is used. When guns are fired, you get to cover. That what happens in the cowboy movies, in the war movies, and in Dirty Harry. But in D&D, what is not what happens. It is just a funny crossbow mechanically (yawn).

(and thats why I love Savage Worlds - when guns or even bows come into play, you best head to Cover, partner! - I would to play in a Solomon Kane setting - guns and swords!).

That is one trope I wish would die a slow painful death.

I played 1E to and I hated that. Being shot with arrows should be scary. There was a reason armies charged as fast as possible to get to the other side they wanted to get our of range of the long bows. Those bows could devastate an army.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That is one trope I wish would die a slow painful death.

I played 1E to and I hated that. Being shot with arrows should be scary. There was a reason armies charged as fast as possible to get to the other side they wanted to get our of range of the long bows. Those bows could devastate an army.

There is a popular bumper sticker among die-hard NRA fans around here: "Ask a Pole about gun control!" (WW2 reference)

Perhaps there should be a similar one for gamers along the lines of "Ask a French Knight about arrows in flight!"

 

[Elf Witch]

There is a popular bumper sticker among die-hard NRA fans around here: "Ask a Pole about gun control!" (WW2 reference)

Perhaps there should be a similar one for gamers along the lines of "Ask a French Knight about arrows in flight!"

LOL

I don't think that arrows should be better then swords but they should not be as weak as they are.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

That is one trope I wish would die a slow painful death.

I played 1E to and I hated that. Being shot with arrows should be scary. There was a reason armies charged as fast as possible to get to the other side they wanted to get our of range of the long bows. Those bows could devastate an army.

*Gives the French an Archer's Salute.*

Yeah, Agincourt proved that, right and proper, it did.

The Auld Grump, in some ways the English didn't win Agincourt - the French were just very effective at losing it.

 

[amerigoV]

In the cowboy movies, people take cover when arrows are being fired- "Get the wagons in a circle!"- and sometimes even when bar fights break out.

I agree they do for arrows too, but that is not really the first thought that occurs to players in D&D (to its defense, taking cover is not what D&D is about - its about heroic combat - which is probably why I cannot fold in guns "cleanly" into the paradigm).

Its kinda funny - we are currently running Ptolus using Savage Worlds. Ptolus has guns in the setting and the GM introduced firearms to show off "something different." My psionist pickup up a DragonPistol. The GM now desperately wants that thing to break. Its not because it is unbalancing (it really is a fire and drop weapon due to reload time), but he cannot reconcile in his mind firearms and a psionist.

 

[mmadsen]

Being shot with arrows should be scary.

Ancient and medieval armies generally considered archers and other skirmishers a nuisance. They didn't cause many casualties against heavily armored troops with shields.

Then the Roman troops met the Parthians, with their compound bows, and the French met the English, with their longbows, and their armor and shields weren't quite so impervious.

So, I can see a D&D-style hero not fearing arrows -- as long as he has armor, or at least a good shield.

I can't see a western hero just ignoring Indian arrows, because he's that cool. He'd be unfazed by near-misses, but he wouldn't treat arrows as a non-threat.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It may be worth mentioning, for folks who want experience with black powder muskets, that many places have Revolutionary War reenactment groups - there are two within a 120 mile radius of where I live, for example. Some American Civil War groups are also worth looking into. (I have a friend that died in Gettysburg... or at least Turner's version thereof. An awful lot of the folks in that movie provided their own costumes. )

The Auld Grump