D&D 5E Have You Started Planning How You Will End 5e Yet?

[Oofta]

But can you see from my angle - how it may get confusing having two very similar versions of the game being played at the same table?
Do you get a 1st level feat? The 2024 PHB that John has says he gets one; Sally who made her character with the 2014 copy came without one.
Does rolling a Natural 20 automatically succeed and give you an Inspiration? John got one, but now I have to remind Sally that she gets one.
John's character has a more meaningful background than Sally does, and his dwarf has tremorsense.
As a DM, am I using the monsters from the 2024 Monster Manual? Does that upset the balance of the encounters in Out of the Abyss?
A player has read the Bastion rules and builds their character concept around that goal. Do I have the rest of the players borrow that copy of the PHB to have the same engagement with the campaign?
Do I pick and choose which weapons have special features? Do I say "we're going to use the 2014 version of Hold Person and the 2024 version of Charm Monster - so you'll have to keep both books handy."
Does the similarity of 2014 and 2024 rules iterations cause a DM to conflate the two versions and become confused?
What about organized play and pick-up games with strangers? Will each table need to have a sheet of house rules to say which variations apply?
But yes, at my tables when 3.5 came out, 3.0 was tossed out. When Pathfinder was released, 3.5 was abandoned. This wasn't just my observations - my contacts in the publishing industry told me this happened to their products. They stopped selling when the books didn't have the +.5 added to 3rd edition.

I assume tables will figure out what version they're using and go from there, just like we always have.

The 5E books aren't going away. DndBeyond may stop support at some point, but I played 5E before it was released so we could do so again. That's all I'm saying.

We have yet to see any fundamental changes that would mean much more than minor tweaks to existing character sheets. If there's a conflict, like whether spiritual hammer requires concentration or not (if that rule even sticks around) then the group will have to decide which version to use.

Time will tell of course, but I see minor changes not seismic upheaval.

 

[FrogReaver]

I assume tables will figure out what version they're using and go from there, just like we always have.

The 5E books aren't going away. DndBeyond may stop support at some point, but I played 5E before it was released so we could do so again. That's all I'm saying.

We have yet to see any fundamental changes that would mean much more than minor tweaks to existing character sheets. If there's a conflict, like whether spiritual hammer requires concentration or not (if that rule even sticks around) then the group will have to decide which version to use.

Time will tell of course, but I see minor changes not seismic upheaval.

I see more rules, less rulings and that change may not be healthy for the big tent they've worked so hard to create.

I see 'minor' mechanical changes that are indicative of a major conceptual/philosophical change.

I also think making people evaluate whether it's worth sinking tons of money into a new version of D&D after they sunk tons of money into the last version that is very similar may be a losing proposition. In that scenario I'd be more apt to use my resources on other games. Worlds without Number, 13th Age and a few others. I say that with the caveat that depending on the changes I may end up investing in 5.5e, but I also may not.

So, I'm not quite as optimistic.

 

[Clint_L]

I also think making people evaluate whether it's worth sinking tons of money into a new version of D&D after they sunk tons of money into the last version that is very similar may be a losing proposition...

That is literally one of the main reasons that they are sticking with 5e and not doing a new version of the game. They have outright stated, over and over, that it will be compatible with all your existing 5e books so you won't have to replace anything that you don't want to. I'm looking at the proposed changes and...yup, should not be a problem still using my other stuff, even if I decide to get the updated PHB.

Did everyone get this worried when Monsters of the Multiverse came out? Because it updated two earlier books and everything was fine. 5e kept going.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's the multi-million dollar question for WOTC/Hasbro... will the market support the new edition, or will most people who have already bought 5e (10M+?) do 5 minutes of research, go "meh" and not spend the money?

If so, there's a risk that they will double down on the mistake by making moves to shut down 5e as we currently have it by forcing changes through D&D Beyond and other channels, making people go from apathetic to upset.

It's already been annoying to have to deal with "No, select the Legacy Goliath option on D&D Beyond, not the Mordenkainen's version" with some of my players. Adding "Also don't pick the 5.5e version" and potentially having some people with/without different versions makes it worse. Do the original Cleric features get shoved into a "Optional Class Features" sub-tab?

They have walked themselves into the middle of a waist-high mud puddle. No matter what they do, it's going to be messy.

Probably only in places like this. In the larger community, it’ll just be “oh hey the revised core books are out” or “oh snap they updated the core books. Nah, you can still make characters using Xanathar’s and Tasha’s and the Eberron book. Issa patch, it’s not that serious.”

It's a new edition regardless of what weasel words WotC uses.

At best it's a 5.5 or call it 6E.

If I can, without “conversion”, make a character using the new phb, Xanathar’s, Eberron, and MoTM, it’s not a new edition.

 

[Zardnaar]

Probably only in places like this. In the larger community, it’ll just be “oh hey the revised core books are out” or “oh snap they updated the core books. Nah, you can still make characters using Xanathar’s and Tasha’s and the Eberron book. Issa patch, it’s not that serious.”


If I can, without “conversion”, make a character using the new phb, Xanathar’s, Eberron, and MoTM, it’s not a new edition.

If they rewrite everything's eg races, classes etc it's a .5 edition at least.

 

[Audiomancer]

I think a lot of people are over-estimating the difficulty of mixing and matching 5E and 1D&D.

I mean… yes, there will certainly be competing rules in places, and individual tables/DMs will have to decide which version of a given rule they want to use. But I remember playing in groups where we freely mashed up AD&D, B/X, and various bits and bobs we pulled out of Dragon Magazine. And we were ELEVEN, and we still made it work.

I’m pretty sure most players in 2024 will prove to be as capable as my middle school chums and I were.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It is no different from using tasha or not tasha. Or 3.5 by the book or after errata.
The 4e phb was not worth the paper it was printed on a few years later. In the end, the classes had so many changes that it was impossiblr to use the old book.
I wish they had done a new printing with errata incorporated (maybe they did at some point, I did not care, because 4e was in constant flux).

So my take is, that 2014 and 2024 as two versions is ok. 10 years in between. Chances, that some people never bought the PHB in paper format and now will be happy to get a book which has all the newest changes in it.

The minimum I expected was just a rstructuring of the classes, species and subclasses, something of 5e greatest hits edition. With tasha's optional features presented as the default and maybe the old features as alternate features.

I would have been a bit disappointed, because they had missed the chance to plug the holes. But I had been even more disapponted, if they would make bigger changes as they are showing us right now.
So for what it is worth, currently I am 80% happy with the rules changes. (A bit sad about the goliath, but I can still play the MotM goliath without any problem.).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If they rewrite everything's eg races, classes etc it's a .5 edition at least.

Certainly feels like 5.5

Which is less than 2e + skills and powers/ combats and tactics/ spells and magic.

 

[Bitbrain]

Reply to opening post.

I’m NOT moving on from 5e, not unless one of my players actually buys the 1D&D rulebooks for me.

 

[S'mon]

I expect to keep running 5e unless the e-tools get so borked with ONE/6e stuff that it becomes too annoying. Basically I'll run 5e as long as I'm allowed to. If 5e stuff is replaced on D&D Beyond, and I have players bringing a bunch of 6e stuff into my 5e games, I plan to stop running 5e, take a breath and see what RPGs I can run that lack e-tools. I've enjoyed White Box S&W and White Star recently, and Mini Six in 2020. I've played some WHFRP and enjoyed that too. I do like 5e best though.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If they rewrite everything's eg races, classes etc it's a .5 edition at least.

.1 at most, if it’s all just a revision that all fits together the same as before, and again, is still fully compatible with existing supplements.

 

[payn]

But can you see from my angle - how it may get confusing having two very similar versions of the game being played at the same table?
Do you get a 1st level feat? The 2024 PHB that John has says he gets one; Sally who made her character with the 2014 copy came without one.
Does rolling a Natural 20 automatically succeed and give you an Inspiration? John got one, but now I have to remind Sally that she gets one.
John's character has a more meaningful background than Sally does, and his dwarf has tremorsense.
As a DM, am I using the monsters from the 2024 Monster Manual? Does that upset the balance of the encounters in Out of the Abyss?
A player has read the Bastion rules and builds their character concept around that goal. Do I have the rest of the players borrow that copy of the PHB to have the same engagement with the campaign?
Do I pick and choose which weapons have special features? Do I say "we're going to use the 2014 version of Hold Person and the 2024 version of Charm Monster - so you'll have to keep both books handy."
Does the similarity of 2014 and 2024 rules iterations cause a DM to conflate the two versions and become confused?
What about organized play and pick-up games with strangers? Will each table need to have a sheet of house rules to say which variations apply?
But yes, at my tables when 3.5 came out, 3.0 was tossed out. When Pathfinder was released, 3.5 was abandoned. This wasn't just my observations - my contacts in the publishing industry told me this happened to their products. They stopped selling when the books didn't have the +.5 added to 3rd edition.

As the game moves more digital, this wont be a worry anymore.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I also think making people evaluate whether it's worth sinking tons of money into a new version of D&D after they sunk tons of money into the last version that is very similar may be a losing proposition.

A "ton" of money? LOL.

I calculated back when OneD&D was first announced that if any person thought that money might be an issue for them when getting the new books in 2024... they could start saving right there and then. And it would be merely $7 per month they would need to hang onto in order to have enough to buy all three when the got released two years later. One less trip to Starbucks a month and they would be able to buy the new books if they really wanted them.

If no one's doing that and the person is going to just completely forget about it until the middle of 2024 when the books get released... and then start complaining about WotC making them needing to spend all this "tons" of money to get the books... I for one will have zero sympathy for them. If that person knew that a lump sum in the summer of '24 was going to potentially be an issue and they really wanted to get the new books when they arrived... if they didn't actually start saving for them, that's on them. At some point personal fiscal responsibility has to come into play.

 

[jasper]

Well I started changing my buying habits. No more buying the PHB or any of the books when they under $20. I would buy and gift those books out.

 

[Retreater]

As the game moves more digital, this wont be a worry anymore.

Yes. But also it might be a challenge to access the 2014 variants in a game that's running the 2024 version. Roll20's implementation (allowing the Tasha's species options alongside the core, for example) does give me hope though.

 

[Scribe]

Did everyone get this worried when Monsters of the Multiverse came out? Because it updated two earlier books and everything was fine. 5e kept going.

It anecdotely sold far worse, because it was 'just reprinting what I have'. There are multiple people on here that I would have assumed due to what the reprint was doing (removing a ton of lore those individuals have expressed disdain for) they would have snapped it up.

They had not.

Now, I dont think this is a direct parallel to what 5.5 or whatever will have in its core 3 books, but yeah, MotM did feel the effects in its sales.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I

It anecdotely sold far worse, because it was 'just reprinting what I have'. There are multiple people on here that I would have assumed due to what the reprint was doing (removing a ton of lore those individuals have expressed disdain for) they would have snapped it up.

They had not.

Now, I dont think this is a direct parallel to what 5.5 or whatever will have in its core 3 books, but yeah, MotM did feel the effects in its sales.

Bought the book only in DnDb3yond, because all those options are more valuable in the character builder than as actual book. Especially, since it is a book with only statblocks.

 

[Maxperson]

Are you planning for the end of 5e yet?

I thought I would have a rogue comet impact the greater Seattle area.

The serious answer is that I don't plan endings as it is fully dependent on how much the group and I like what comes next. We played 3.5 all the way through 4e and into 2019 before 5e had enough product for us to make the switch. 3 years later we still debate whether the next campaign is going back to 3e or sticking with 5e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So for what it is worth, currently I am 80% happy with the rules changes. (A bit sad about the goliath, but I can still play the MotM goliath without any problem.).

That’s the key thing for me. The MoTM Goliath is still there, still official, and still works great.

 

[Clint_L]

It anecdotely sold far worse, because it was 'just reprinting what I have'. There are multiple people on here that I would have assumed due to what the reprint was doing (removing a ton of lore those individuals have expressed disdain for) they would have snapped it up.

They had not.

Now, I dont think this is a direct parallel to what 5.5 or whatever will have in its core 3 books, but yeah, MotM did feel the effects in its sales.

I wasn't discussing sales (and what does "it anecdotally sold far worse" even mean? That you assume it sold far worse? That's not even an argument). I was discussing integration. It integrated fine. Seamlessly. There are some creatures where I prefer the old versions (because the spell lists), so I use them, but mostly I use the new ones. There is no problem. There was no problem when Tasha's came out. I just told my players that they could use all of the optional class rules if they wanted. And I integrated some of the patron stuff - I liked it.

Almost every sourcebook has added stuff. The game is already quite different than in 2014. The new PHB will add more stuff and make some minor changes, but I don't see anything in the preview material that makes it not 5e. It is clearly still the 5e chassis. It's all stuff like "you get a basic feat at Level 1," spiritual hammer now uses concentration, "races" are now "species."

It's interesting that we are getting posts that the game will be totally different and you need to figure out how to "end" your 5e campaign for it (you don't), and others complaining that barely anything is changing and they were hoping for a new edition. As far as I can see, WotC seems to be working on delivering what they promised: 5e with some updates. You know, like they've been doing all along.