Head over heels for a girl.

[Warrior Poet]

My suggestion: be her friend. If something happens, it happens. But I think you'll eventually realize that her friendship is more important to you than an unstable relationship.

My suggestion: be friendly, but not her friend. If you're her friend it still puts you too close to the situation, kind of what I said before about holding on to hope and how that can set you up for a lot more grief. I think in the case of this particular relationship, being a friend is still too wrapped up in this person. I think you can be kind, courteous, and cordial, and also go on about your life and find other interesting people you want to be around and who want to be around you, and forget about this girl and live your life for you instead of living it for her. You don't have to be rude, but I think it will hurt to be close.

Warrior Poet

 

[fusangite]

My suggestion: don't make TB feel like he spoke too soon. We handled this thing fine -- further interaction with this girl won't make Ferret or anyone else feel good.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I agree with Buttercup. Having been 16 not too long ago, here's what I remember. Most girls don't look to friends for relationships. There is some sort of mental barrier between "friends" and "more than friends." Because of the fluidity of high school relationships, most girls have a subconscious fear of losing the friendship, and thus tend to foster relationships with people they don't know as well.

Why? Because if she ever broke up with you (which is bound to happen eventually in a high school relationship, at least once) your friendship would not be the same. As much as you'd like to believe you wouldn't change, you would. And so would she. That's life.

My suggestion: be her friend. If something happens, it happens. But I think you'll eventually realize that her friendship is more important to you than an unstable relationship.

I don't get this whole post at all. You outline in the first two paragraphs why your conclusion in the third is wrong.

Unless I misread the inaugural post, Ferret isn't looking for a buddy.

 

[BOZ]

actually, i think a buddy is what he already has, but he was trying to make the common guy mistake of stretching that out into something else. it works about 1% of the time, and the other 99% of fellas wind up cold and alone, pining for someone that thinks of them as a non-sexual friend-male.

 

[Xath]

I don't get this whole post at all. You outline in the first two paragraphs why your conclusion in the third is wrong.

Unless I misread the inaugural post, Ferret isn't looking for a buddy.

Yeah...I usually what I write before pressing the submit button. Edited above.

 

[Teflon Billy]

My suggestion: be friendly, but not her friend. If you're her friend it still puts you too close to the situation, kind of what I said before about holding on to hope and how that can set you up for a lot more grief. I think in the case of this particular relationship, being a friend is still too wrapped up in this person. I think you can be kind, courteous, and cordial, and also go on about your life and find other interesting people you want to be around and who want to be around you, and forget about this girl and live your life for you instead of living it for her. You don't have to be rude, but I think it will hurt to be close.

Warrior Poet

And here I thought this had been handled

Well, the aboveis a little closer, but it's still not quite there.

I always catch hell for this, but here it is...

Don't be nice to her.

Literally.

Do. Not. Be. Nice.

Being Nice, Cordial etc etc. is going to get you slotted into the "Good Friend" position real quick, and brother, you do not want to be there. Let me quote what Xath posted a little earlier...

[bq]...Most girls don't look to friends for relationships. There is some sort of mental barrier between "friends" and "more than friends." Because of the fluidity of high school relationships, most girls have a subconscious fear of losing the friendship, and thus tend to foster relationships with people they don't know as well...[/bq]

That is golden advice right there.

for reasons I don't and will never understand, if you want the girl (and by "want the girl" I mean want a romantic, physical relationship with the girl) then you need to be somewhat less than nice to her.

I'm running short on time today, so I will just do a cut-and-paste of my own commentary from a previous thread on the subject of relationships. Noneof my fellings or advice have really changed...nor has their utility.

Women talk a good game about liking "nice guys with a sense of humour" and suchlike. But in my experience (and that of most every guy I know; inlcuding my Grandfather, my English Prof, a Professional Wrestler, a "Hairstylist to the Stars" and a Deacon, to give you some notion of the range of folks I'm describing here) it was no accident that our culture developed the proverb Nice guys finish last.

Because they categorically do.

And yes, there will always be a girl who posts to a thread like this claiming that neither they, nor any girl they know, likes jerks at all.

While I am certain that's true in their case(s), it is not statistically signifigant enough to offset the fact that nice guys finish last is a truism in our culture..

It just means that they and their friends are anomalies.

I'm entirely spoken for at the moment (and happily so), but back in the day I had no shortage of women (I was a Serial Monogamist; one girl at a atime, but no intention of settling down).

The women were there because I followed very simple advice. I have no idea why these rules work--they shouldn't-- but they do.

1) Deflate the girl a little. Don't agree with everything she says. Show her up in front of her friends. If she has just announced that she liked American Idol, well, guess what you just decided is stupid.

2) Spend Money. Not necessarily on her. This one blows me away. If you spend a lot fo money on a girl, you are a mark. But buy drinks for yourself, your friends and--occassionally-- her, and you are in.

3) Don't take a lot of crap. Be ready to walk away from drama. This ones tough because you can easily get the the feeling that you are throwing away the relationship and that can make you cave. Don't. Stick to your guns and she will--inexpicably--be back.

4) Side with her against other girls. Girls constantly snipe, gossip and generally dig at one another, even (and maybe expecially) their friends. Join in on her side. eg...

[bq] Her: "Molly is such a slut"
You: "Yeah well, that's not exactly news in my circles"
Her: "Really?"
You: "Oh yeah"[/bq]


...this is also a good opportunity to engage in rule 1 (deflating her a little)

[bq]You: "I thought Molly was a friend of yours?"
Her: "well, she is"
You: *shrug* "I guess guys just treat their friends differently"[/bq]



5) Play to your masculine personality strengths. What is pretty simple stuff for men is just beyond the pale for a large percentage of women. Work on "Not treating every situation as a full-on crisis" and "Not sweating the small stuff". Your ability to not worry about everything imaginable is both attractive and aggravating to most women. So don't be "Mr. Sensitive"...young women and their friends have enough "sensitivity" for an army. That tank is full.

Bring something else to the table. Something she can't provide for herself.

6) Be ready to fail. Most women you meet are not going to be all that into you (unless you already have a girl interested in you...then it will be a swarm), this is just the way of things.

It is a lot easier for an average girl to get an above average guy than vice-versa. You need to pick your battles. Meet a lot of women, work on the ones who show an interest. Be ready and willing to walk away.

That's about it.

Good luck to you

 

[Teflon Billy]

actually, i think a buddy is what he already has, but he was trying to make the common guy mistake of stretching that out into something else...

Well OK then Capt. Semantic

"I guess he's not interested in remaining 'Just' friends"

 

[Warrior Poet]

And here I thought this had been handled

Well, the aboveis a little closer, but it's still not quite there.

Yeah, I know. I was trying to approach it from the angle that he's already in the "friend" stage, so just move on. Don't try and circle back around (or somehow backtrack) to the "more than friend" stage. Instead, achieve escape velocity and go meet other people. No reason he can't be polite (I said friendly; should have clarified), but polite as in just being decent to another human being, not polite as in "polite will make her want me/polite is my modus operandi to becoming her boyfriend." Because I don't think he should try to get her as a girlfriend, I think he should forget her and move on. Life's too short.

Warrior Poet

 

[EricNoah]

I hate to contradict the World's Handsomest Gamer (TM) -- but...

I think TB's method ("do not be nice") might ultimately leave you unsatisfied. Not that it won't work at all, or that it won't work for the short term. But I think his method is strong on playing games and short on intimacy. In the short term, game playing is useful, even vital, because almost everyone is looking for someone to be a partner in whatever life games they like to play. Playing games can be a good way to get into a superficial relationship, which then if you both are willing, can lead to something deeper and more intimate. But if you stay at the playing games level -- the two of you ritualistically seeking strokes from each other, the two of you both starved for strokes and unable to ask for or give strokes freely without game-playing -- you are starving your souls.

But game playing is an important first step in establishing a relationship. Some people won't go any further until you demonstrate that you are adept at playing.

I know -- psychobable.

I do think TB's "don't take crap" and "be ready to fail" advice, though, is probably good advice for any relationship.

 

[Xath]

for reasons I don't and will never understand, if you want the girl (and by "want the girl" I mean want a romantic, physical relationship with the girl) then you need to be somewhat less than nice to her.

In the same vein (and I think I've thought it through this time), girls like guys who irritate them. It gives them something to "fix." I don't agree that you have to be a real jerk, but when looking for relationships, girls have a love/hate relationship with being irritated. A perfectly nice person is no challenge, and therefore not worth having.