D&D 5E Heat Metal Spell. Unfair to Heavy Armor Wearers?

[Oofta]

I would expect so because of two factors:

1) It's a Concentration spell, and you can't cast another one whilst maintaining it. Many of the casters who can cast Heat Metal have superior alternatives to cast instead.

2) 5E monsters in general are absolutely not designed with bizarre hit-and-run corner-case scenarios in mind. They're designed with combats in mind. They expectation is that they stick around. Many of the ones who can cast this spell have a ton of other good spells, or other good abilities, or do significant damage, and they're throwing that all in the trash if they run. Mistwell keeps mentioning humanoid casters, but if those casters can cast level 3 spells, they have superior alternative uses for Concentration unless the DM designing them decides they don't - in which case it's on the DM as the designer. Hell, there are situations where, realistically, Bless will inflict more damage on the PCs than this will (albeit usually only if the caster is grouped with some pretty serious hitters).

I think it would be reasonable if this abuse/exploit is going on to limit to maybe 150' range, but that's the only change I could see being needed or beneficial.

Enemy bards, clerics and druids are "bizarre hit-and-run corner case scenarios"? I run my NPCs as intelligently as I think they should be. If that means casting heat metal and then hiding behind full cover, that's what they do. But I've experienced games where heat metal was the de facto spell to be cast against armored opponents by the PCs.

As far as range, according to sage advice once you cast a spell you can maintain it even without line of sight.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Enemy bards, clerics and druids are "bizarre hit-and-run corner case scenarios"? I run my NPCs as intelligently as I think they should be. If that means casting heat metal and then hiding behind full cover, that's what they do. But I've experienced games where heat metal was the de facto spell to be cast against armored opponents by the PCs.

It's not particularly challenging for the PCs to get to a guy "In full cover" and kill him in melee. It's tactical and it's smart, but it's not broken or an exploit. So you're playing fine. You're not using the exploit described. Combats are over in 3 rounds, typically, so at best, your Bard/Cleric/Druid is dead on 3rd or maybe 4th round, and no longer causes a problem. Plus, they guy has to be out of cover initially to even drop the spell on them. And all it takes is a PC with Misty Step (or similar) and they're on top of the caster, full-cover or no. Or a pet or summon.

So, no, that's not a "bizarre... scenario".

But it's not a hit-and-run at all. It's hit-and-hide which does not cause the same problem/exploit because the NPC is soon found and killed.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

So this is shenanigans in my view.

"They should just retreat" is like someone saying "I would simply decide to take no damage". It's complete fantasy. D&D 5E does NOT let you retreat easily or well - you get slaughtered if you attempt to retreat, both PCs and NPCs.

As I said, if a DM chooses to abuse/exploit this, that's on them. They probably do other pretty awful stuff. In a way it's helpful, because this would be a great illustration that this was a cheapass "killer DM" and you probably shouldn't play with them. Why play with people who are there to grief (players or DMs)?.

If you're already engaged in a fight, it's definitely hard, if you're just dropping it and running away, then it's definitely doable, although it depends on if there's cover, the distance, why they're there, etc.

If using an ability the most obvious way means you're a bad DM, I'd say the issue is more with the ability itself, my Druid PC running around while cooking enemy Knights to death was surely the first thing I thought when I read the spell.

 

[Oofta]

It's not particularly challenging for the PCs to get to a guy "In full cover" and kill him in melee. It's tactical and it's smart, but it's not broken or an exploit. So you're playing fine. You're not using the exploit described. Combats are over in 3 rounds, typically, so at best, your Bard/Cleric/Druid is dead on 3rd or maybe 4th round, and no longer causes a problem. Plus, they guy has to be out of cover initially to even drop the spell on them. And all it takes is a PC with Misty Step (or similar) and they're on top of the caster, full-cover or no. Or a pet or summon.

So, no, that's not a "bizarre... scenario".

But it's not a hit-and-run at all. It's hit-and-hide which does not cause the same problem/exploit because the NPC is soon found and killed.

Sure. Unless there's another PC to cast invisibility, the NPC just hides, runs away, goes behind a door and locks it, the PCs are simply locked down or blocked by other NPCs/monsters. It's trivially easy to nerf the guy in armor and get away with it for the duration of the fight whether it's team PC or team NPC.

Maybe your combats are over in 3 rounds. Sometimes mine are, but it's the exception. I throw harder encounters, have reinforcements come in, use tactics and flanking, separate the party.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If using an ability the most obvious way means you're a bad DM, I'd say the issue is more with the ability itself, my Druid PC running around while cooking enemy Knights to death was surely the first thing I thought when I read the spell.

I mean, claiming this corner-case usage (by which I mean fully running away and not looking back, not just hiding like @Oofta more reasonably suggests) is "the most obvious way" to use the spell is not reasonable arguing in my view, sorry, not going to engage with that.

And that might have been your "first thought" but abandoning the entire party so you can kill one enemy that you could probably kill much faster if you just stuck around is, um, well not great tactical thinking in my view.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sure. Unless there's another PC to cast invisibility, the NPC just hides, runs away, goes behind a door and locks it, the PCs are simply locked down or blocked by other NPCs/monsters. It's trivially easy to nerf the guy in armor and get away with it for the duration of the fight whether it's team PC or team NPC.

Maybe your combats are over in 3 rounds. Sometimes mine are, but it's the exception. I throw harder encounters, have reinforcements come in, use tactics and flanking, separate the party.

I very much doubt you've successfully murdered many PCs this way, @Oofta. You're presenting a made-up worst-case scenario which just plays into my accusations of "corner case". Realistically the PCs will catch and kill the person, or they'll just kill everyone else. Or they'll nerf the spell in some other way (standing in water, Fire resistance, etc.).

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I mean, claiming this corner-case usage (by which I mean fully running away and not looking back, not just hiding like @Oofta more reasonably suggests) is "the most obvious way" to use the spell is not reasonable arguing in my view, sorry, not going to engage with that.

And that might have been your "first thought" but abandoning the entire party so you can kill one enemy that you could probably kill much faster if you just stuck around is, um, well not great tactical thinking in my view.

Well, in her case, her brother was killed by a Champion, so I guess that was more on my mind, a 4th level Heat Metal would do the CR 9's whole health in the minute. Seemed pretty fitting if she got to confront him.

There's speed in killing, and there's efficiency and safety. It's like the whole Barbarian using bow to kite over walking over into melee thing.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well, in her case, her brother was killed by a Champion, so I guess that was more on my mind, a 4th level Heat Metal would do the CR 9's whole health in the minute. Seemed pretty fitting if she got to confront him.

There's speed in killing, and there's efficiency and safety. It's like the whole Barbarian using bow to kite over walking over into melee thing.

That's kind of fun in a sort of "You killed my brother, prepare to die! < jumps out the window >" kind of way!

A Barbarian who uses a bow to kite is really letting the party down though, unless they're solo. Also given the short ranges in D&D, they'd have to either on a computer-game-esque flat open plain, or their enemy terminally stupid. Almost none of their abilities apply except their small speed increase. A post-Tasha's Monk can do a better job there of course.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

A Barbarian who uses a bow to kite is really letting the party down though, unless they're solo. Also given the short ranges in D&D, they'd have to either on a computer-game-esque flat open plain, or their enemy terminally stupid. Almost none of their abilities apply except their small speed increase. A post-Tasha's Monk can a better job there of course.

It's more that, if you can kite an enemy without ranged attacks, you're better off doing so instead of approaching them and losing hp or other resources, even if you'd do more damage that way. Depends a lot on terrain, but against a lot of monster without ranged attacks it's pretty good. Slower, but safer, like the cook and run, especially if you'd lose normally like most enemies are expected to.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Anyway, if I were to try and make it more reasonable I'd just make the save mean that the creature is unaffected during that turn. It doesn't end the spell still, so it can still be very powerful. Probably add a size limit as well.