Help me min/max this character concept please.

[iwatt]

I'm Starting to loose faith in the expert tactician. It costs me a feat which is of greater use if I used something like the spike chain. But I actually want to use the rapier (it doesn't hurt that my GM is a fencer himself so I my get some sympathy bennies). So I'm offically saying nay to the Expert Tactician. So now I've freed 2 feats.

satori01, Expertise is going to be one of them, since I'll be positioning myself most of the time for better strikes. By the way, my GM aproved my brother's half-ogre, so we'll have a big damage-dealing brute with reach to take the brunt of the offense.


Darklone, I don't really want to go TWF, since I plan to dart in and out of combat, so I don't plan to get that many uses of full attack actions.

About the buckler, it would have to be masterwork to offset the armor penalty to attack rolls using weapon finesse.

Since the character needs the second hand for balance, apply the armor check penalty of any shield worn to attack rolls.

What's this Shield specialization, maybe you mean Shield Expert?

Elder-Basilisk

I think I could talk my GM into a more favorable reading of Expert tactician, but I think you're right with you're interpretation. Maybe in 3.5 they try to write feat descriptions with some more care.


Since so many people swear on Improved Initiative, I'm going to choose it as well , although I'll take a gander at those KoK PG books, although I've heard some of the feats are unbalanced.

So my actual build now is:

Rog1: Dodge, Mobility
Rog1/Fig1: Weapon Finesse
Rog2/Fig1: Expertise
Rog3/Fig1:
Rog3/Fig2: Spring Attack
Rog4/Fig2: Improved Initiative

Here I might take Gladiator from sword and Fist for the Improved feint ability.

The other option I might consider is taking Ambidexterity instead of mp. Init and later taking on the Duelist prestige Class., and follow that all the way? But the no armor rule is quite harsh so I'm not sure about that.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2 is a very useful prefix for this kind of build.

Here's why: Because of the way uncanny dodge stacks, a rogue 3/barbarian 2 has the uncanny dodge ability of a barbarian 5- that is, it cannot be flanked. Also you only lose 1 point of BAB this way, as opposed to the two points you lose with 5 or more levels of rogue. The boost in base speed helps substantially when spring attacking. An even split between these three classes means that there is no xp penalty, no matter what race you choose.

Dipping into a level of gladiator gives the ability to bluff as a move equivalent action at very little cost, and ties in well with a duelist concept. You are dueling in front of an audience, is all. Plus the "dirty tricks" mentioned in the improved feint description fit your character.

I'm not sure if the Defensive Strike feat is available to you; it is OA, but it may be in one of the FR supplements as well (I don't own silver marches or unapproachable east). Basically you take the full-defense action, and if your opponent misses you, you get a +4 on your next attack against him. Good synergy with expertise and the study opponent gladiator ability.

Even if you decide to avoid the gladiator and go straight into duelist, I would recommend the rogue 3/fighter 2/barbarian 2 prefix. You can shift the order of classes around, of course.

I wouldn't worry about whirlwind attack; how often do you intend to be surrounded by a gang of your opponents? Much better just to spring into position.

Good luck!

 

[Darklone]

Shield specialisation is from the KoK PG...

It gives a +1 bonus to shield AC or you may keep the normal AC bonus while attacking.

 

[Spatula]

Since so many people swear on Improved Initiative, I'm going to choose it as well

Improved Init is okay, it's a decent feat for getting the jump on opponents, but it's not a GREAT feat. Since you threw in Expertise, you might want to consider Whirlwind Attack as your 6th level feat - unless your DM's style is to only throw 1 big opponent at the party instead of groups of smaller baddies, in which case you'll never get to use it. Arterial Strike from S&S lets you trade in some sneak attack damage to cause continuous bleeding damage. Fleet of Foot (also from S&S) is not a great feat by any means, but since it increases your movement it does give you some more room for spring attacking.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Hamstring (from Song and Silence) is another feat you might consider. It lets you trade sneak attack damage for reducing your opponents' move by 10 feet. That would have great synergy with spring attack. . . if you weren't planning on spring attacking in and out of the flank while the half-ogre pounds on whatever he's fighting. In that case, the opponenet doesn't need to move at all.

 

[RigaMortus]

There is a feat in Swashbuckling Adventures called "Improved Finesse" which allows you to swap your Str bonus with your Dex bonus when dealing damage in combat.

In other words, if you have a 14 Str (+2 modifier) and an 18 Dex (+4 modifier), when you attack with your Rapier you can do +4 from Dex in damage instead of +2 from Str. Get it? Got it? Good.

The only prereq for it is Weapon Finesse...

 

[LokiDR]

What are you look at doing in combat?

If you just want to punch holes in people real well, I would say improved init, expert tatician, and rogue levels.

If you just want to keep clear of combat until you have good opening, with your barbarian friend, you should take expertise and mobility.

If you want to focus solely on talking, there are several feats in S&S for that, such as charlatan.

Arterial stike is weak and annoying. You will likely forget the extra points of damage and it is pain to keep track of. Also, it is too easy for a minion or healer to stop. Cure minor, no problem.

Hamstring is more interesting, if you spring attack and you barbarian friend wants to make good use of his enhanced mobility. Likely, though, the barbarian will just pounce people and pound them untill his is hurt enough to run. Probably not a taker.

My suggestion is improved init, combat reflexes, expert tactician, expertise, mobility, ambidex, dodge. Then into duelist. Duelist really fits your concept. Use more rogue levels if you want to sneak attack, more fighter if you want to specialize in rapier and set up flanking. Trick out with ranger, monk, and barbarian if you want to really powergame the extra bits.

The deadlier character would be TWF style with expert tactician, improved init, and lots of sneak attack. Tumble into flanking position and dismantle people. The gladitorial style would get you overrun in a hurry.

 

[iwatt]

Seems this is a popular build. My feats are all going towards combat by the way.

Barbarian . Yep, that 40' base move will keep me out of range of most rivals. Besides, you never know when a little rage is gonna help. The xtra movement also helps on jump checks, which coupled with the duelists acrobatic attack option means that Barb is the way to go. Thanx guys.

So now I think my current build will be the one I mentioned previously up till 5th Level. Then 6th level I start the following path to power:

Rog3/Fight2/ Barb1: Ambidexterity BAB:5
Rog3/Fight2/ Barb1/Glad1: Improved feint BAB:6

From here onwards I'd go straight duelist. I still believe improved feint is a worthwile ability for this character, although the cannot be flanked would also rock. Hamstring has got me thinking. I hate when those suckers try to get away, besides I can really kick ass in a duel if I cut down on my rival's mobility while I'm streaking in and out.

About the only use I see to ambidexterity besides fullfilling a requisite is to be able to say:

" Ha, I'm not really left handed either"
when fighting another swashbuckler atop a cliff I've just climbed up .

The only trouble with this build is that my willpower get's stagnated. But I do get pretty strong Fort and Ref saves.

Level 8 Rog3/Fight2/ Barb1/Glad1/Duel1 (what a mouthful)
BFS: +7 BRS: +5 BWS:+1

Well, they'll probably try to charm the big guy first hopefully.

By the way, using a 32 point buy system, how would you distribute the abilities. Wisdom will be a dump stat (compulsive gambler!) and strength the next one as well. Con is never a dump stat, and this character needs Dex, Int, Cha, Con, Str, Wis ; in that order I believe. I'll have to roll for the abilities, but a good point buy strategy as a guide will help me a lot.

You guys have been great. Keep the suggestiosn coming. Try to convince me to give up gladiator for barb 2.

 

[LokiDR]

By the way, using a 32 point buy system, how would you distribute the abilities. Wisdom will be a dump stat (compulsive gambler!) and strength the next one as well. Con is never a dump stat, and this character needs Dex, Int, Cha, Con, Str, Wis ; in that order I believe. I'll have to roll for the abilities, but a good point buy strategy as a guide will help me a lot.

You guys have been great. Keep the suggestiosn coming. Try to convince me to give up gladiator for barb 2.

Actually, I would set Cha at 12 and let it stand at that. Maybe not even this high. You get no numic advantages for Cha except some skill bonues, and you have skill ranks for that.

Don't dump widom too much. Your will save is bad, you don't need to make it worse. Also, bonus on spot, listen, and professing(gaming) would be good

Str is also important not to dump too much. You still want to get some extra damage. Remember, you don't have finesse, so low str will make your to-hit suffer. That might be worth swapping a feat for.

I would go Dex, Int, Con, Str, Wis, Cha for max powergaming. Min-maxing is all about ignoring your concept for better numbers

 

[Technik4]

???

I realize I am walking into a thread where someone is trying to min/max a duelist type character.

However it does seem absurd to me that a noble who is forced to scrub it would gain barb levels.

I'm all for min/maxing and making viable archtypes, I just think this level of powergaming is a little obscene. My opinion only.

Technik