D&D 5E Help me with this House Rule: Vitality Points & Staggered Condition [UPDATED]

[DND_Reborn]

One consequence I'm hoping for the Staggered Condition is that characters at 0 HP are targeted by more attacks. A Staggered Fighter poses a greater threat than an unconscious Fighter, so they will remain an active target of enemy attacks. I think this is more fun as both a player and a DM.

Maybe. Remember since they cannot move and act, they aren't as much a threat. With so many Wound Points it will take a lot of hits to take them down at this point and there seems no way for them to fall unconscious when staggered.

When someone is at 0 HP, that should be a trigger for them to NOT remain in combat, not for them to keep slugging things out.

While a staggered PC might pose a greater threat, a downed PC is a greater asset to the enemy. If intelligent foes outnumber the PCs, the first downed PC should be held hostage to demand the PCs surrender or tap-tap PC death. I know a lot of DMs don't play this way, but when I DM and I am playing the opponents the PCs are my enemies and my goal is to stop them by any means available to the opponents.

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Anyway, it seems like you want a depleting resource of "How many times can you go to 0 HP before you need a REAL nice and long rest." Each time you reach 0 HP, you are less effective (Staggered). When this "new resource" is depleted and you hit 0 HP, you are in dire trouble and probably die. Perhaps until you get a "REAL nice and long rest" in, you can't recover this resource?

Is that what you are looking for?

 

[BookTenTiger]

Anyway, it seems like you want a depleting resource of "How many times can you go to 0 HP before you need a REAL nice and long rest." Each time you reach 0 HP, you are less effective (Staggered). When this "new resource" is depleted and you hit 0 HP, you are in dire trouble and probably die. Perhaps until you get a "REAL nice and long rest" in, you can't recover this resource?

Is that what you are looking for?

Yep! That's basically my goal.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yep! That's basically my goal.

LOL, ok so I am the same page as you at least.

So, I'll recap things:

When you go to 0 HP, you are Staggered (whatever, ultimately, that means).
You have a new mechanic, I'll call it Recovery Points (RPs), and expend a recovery point each time you recover from being Staggered.
When you are out of RPs, you will remain Staggered.

How do you recover from being Staggered? You need at least 1 HP and spend a RP.

How do you recover RPs? Up to you. Maybe a long rest, maybe a week of rest, or whatever. Maybe you have to be in town or relative safety, etc. Maybe you need a CON save or check to recover 1 RP after a long rest--if you want it variable and roll dependent.

How many RPs do you get? Again, up to you. I would say your get points equal to your proficiency bonus. This means at tier 1 you can go to 0 HP twice before you are stuck in Staggered-mode, while in tier 4 you can reach 0 HP six times before being stuck in Staggered-mode.

 

[BookTenTiger]

LOL, ok so I am the same page as you at least.

So, I'll recap things:

When you go to 0 HP, you are Staggered (whatever, ultimately, that means).
You have a new mechanic, I'll call it Recovery Points (RPs), and expend a recovery point each time you recover from being Staggered.
When you are out of RPs, you will remain Staggered.

How do you recover from being Staggered? You need at least 1 HP and spend a RP.

How do you recover RPs? Up to you. Maybe a long rest, maybe a week of rest, or whatever. Maybe you have to be in town or relative safety, etc. Maybe you need a CON save or check to recover 1 RP after a long rest--if you want it variable and roll dependent.

How many RPs do you get? Again, up to you. I would say your get points equal to your proficiency bonus. This means at tier 1 you can go to 0 HP twice before you are stuck in Staggered-mode, while in tier 4 you can reach 0 HP six times before being stuck in Staggered-mode.

I think that's a really interesting idea to have to spend points to get out of Staggered!

With this system, where do you make room for character deaths?

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think that's a really interesting idea to have to spend points to get out of Staggered!

With this system, where do you make room for character deaths?

Well, going with this idea is if you are out of RPs and become Staggered again (0 HP) then either:

1. You die.
2. You drop unconscious and start death saves at this point.

Up to you.

Now, here is something I have thought more about today which I like:

When you go to 0 HP you continue to track damage and if your total "negative damage" reaches your max HP, you die. The damage that takes you to 0 overflows into this negative HP.

Now, these "negative HP" (NHP) only heal through rest or the powerful magic some like, otherwise taking a long time to recover. NHP don't heal while you're adventuring maybe?

You could track it like this (say your max hp is 50):

50/50..

Oh, DAMN, , WAIT... I got it!!!

Your negative HP reduces your MAXIMUM HP!!! Back to the example.

You begin at 50/50 (current/max) and are eventually at 4/50 when you get hit for 10 points.
You would drop 4 points to 0 and the other 6 reduces your maximum hp to 44, so you are 0/44.
You regain hp until you reach your reduced max and cap out at 44/44.
Later, you are reduced to 7/44 and take 12 damage, the extra 5 overflows and reduces your max, leaving you at 0/39.
After resting etc you get "up to current max" and are 39/39.

The maximum HP are what can only be restored via long rests (however long you want this to encourage more downtime).

Ok, I like that a lot and might build on it myself. I might go with a long rest restores 1 HD to your reduced maximum HP.

In the above case, you finish the adventure at 39/39 and after a long rest roll a d8 (HD type) getting a 6 and you are now at 45/45. Another long rest d8 roll restores the last 5 points to get you back to 50/50.

Do you like that idea at all?

EDIT: if you incorporate that while at 0 HP, damage is critical (more or less doubled), your maximum HP would be reduced faster, if that is desired...

 

[Imaculata]

I really like the idea of going into negative hitpoints, although I would personally prefer the damage cap not to be your max hp, but your constitution score. Because that makes the game more deadly at higher levels, and less so at low levels. But thats just my personal preference.

The idea of having a temporary reduction of your max hp as a penalty is great, and creates more of a risk versus reward situation. I think you want a situation where a low hp player may contemplate to keep on fighting, just to defeat an enemy that is at death's door, and risk a loss of max hp.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Well, going with this idea is if you are out of RPs and become Staggered again (0 HP) then either:

1. You die.
2. You drop unconscious and start death saves at this point.

Up to you.

Now, here is something I have thought more about today which I like:

When you go to 0 HP you continue to track damage and if your total "negative damage" reaches your max HP, you die. The damage that takes you to 0 overflows into this negative HP.

Now, these "negative HP" (NHP) only heal through rest or the powerful magic some like, otherwise taking a long time to recover. NHP don't heal while you're adventuring maybe?

You could track it like this (say your max hp is 50):

50/50..

Oh, DAMN, , WAIT... I got it!!!

Your negative HP reduces your MAXIMUM HP!!! Back to the example.

You begin at 50/50 (current/max) and are eventually at 4/50 when you get hit for 10 points.
You would drop 4 points to 0 and the other 6 reduces your maximum hp to 44, so you are 0/44.
You regain hp until you reach your reduced max and cap out at 44/44.
Later, you are reduced to 7/44 and take 12 damage, the extra 5 overflows and reduces your max, leaving you at 0/39.
After resting etc you get "up to current max" and are 39/39.

The maximum HP are what can only be restored via long rests (however long you want this to encourage more downtime).

Ok, I like that a lot and might build on it myself. I might go with a long rest restores 1 HD to your reduced maximum HP.

In the above case, you finish the adventure at 39/39 and after a long rest roll a d8 (HD type) getting a 6 and you are now at 45/45. Another long rest d8 roll restores the last 5 points to get you back to 50/50.

Do you like that idea at all?

EDIT: if you incorporate that while at 0 HP, damage is critical (more or less doubled), your maximum HP would be reduced faster, if that is desired...

Really cool idea! I'm going to think more about this and then write up some ideas.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I really like the idea of going into negative hitpoints, although I would personally prefer the damage cap not to be your max hp, but your constitution score. Because that makes the game more deadly at higher levels, and less so at low levels. But thats just my personal preference.

Yeah, negative HP has been around forever basically. Using CON makes it almost like the d20 SW wounds system, and works well too if that is more your preference.

A simple variant follows d20 SW:

HP > 0, you're fighting strong
HP = 0, you're fatigued, staggered, etc.
NHP (or Wounds or whatever) > CON, you are dying.
NHP (etc.) = CON + 10, you are dead.

That is basically what d20 SW does, except critical hits went directly to NHP.

If you like the idea of reducing max HP, critical hits could just reduce max HP directly instead of doing double damage.

The idea of reducing max HP is different in philosophy from just having a set NHP amount, such as CON. In most systems with NHP or such it is the idea you can't avoid the hits anymore and are taking real, solid damage... no more abstract HP to subtract from.

The idea of reducing max HP works sort of the same. Your ability to avoid damage is diminished, even with some rest. You can be restored to your reduced max HP, but only some real time off can fully restore the metaphysical aspects of HP after those times you've pushed it too far (i.e. each time you went to 0 HP).

Really cool idea! I'm going to think more about this and then write up some ideas.

Thanks. Maybe it will develop into something we both can work with.

 

[Imaculata]

Btw, I really appreciate how open you (the OP) are to our feedback. It is a rare thing sometimes, but really invites an exchange of ideas. Kudos!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Btw, I really appreciate how open you (the OP) are to our feedback. It is a rare thing sometimes, but really invites an exchange of ideas. Kudos!

Seconded!