Help with some complex encounter design

tyrlaan

Explorer
**Note: If you are in my game, Ascendancy of Darkness, please be a good sport and stay out. Don't spoil your fun **



In the campaign I'm running, the town in which the party is currently staying is about to get attacked on two fronts. One force will come from the docks, the other on the effective opposite side of town. In my mind's eye I want the encounter to play out something like this:
  • Assault from the water starts first; party goes to the docks and helps townsfolk defend/repel the attack
  • Some subset of the attacking force gets through, party fights it
  • While that fight is going on, the party learns of the attack at the opposite side of town
  • Some subset of the new attacking force gets through, party fights it
  • Party goes to new battlefront to help townsfolk defend/repel second attack

Things I've worked out so far (but subject to change based on input!):
  • I'm taking a lot of my ideas for the encounter from the D&D Boss Fight concepts found here: http://angrydm.com/2010/04/the-dd-boss-fight-part-1/; using an XP budget that pushes the limit for their current level (9), splitting it across the 2 combats and the presumably skill challengish bits
  • The two clear combat bits are fleshed out, since really they're the easy part
  • My thought is that the skill challenge bits would produce harder/easier combat encounters based on party success/failure

Challenges I specifically need help with:
  • How do I make sure urgency is ratcheted up when the attacks are on opposite sides of the city?
  • Similarly, is there a way that makes sense to have the second fight hit when the first is winding down? Can I do this without having to suggest half the town has been decimated already?
  • I want the town to survive (assuming PC success), so I need to balance the feeling of the threat with the plausibility of being able to resist the attacks. The primary purpose of the assault is actually to try to inspire them to take action on a plotline they have been ICly avoiding.
  • I could run this as phase 1=skill challenge, phase 2=combat, phase 3=combat, phase 4=skill challenge, but my worry is that's almost too mechanical in its progression to properly convey the feelings I want to have for the encounter.

So...if you read all of that and have ideas/notions/criticisms/commentary, by all means toss them my way! :D
 

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Lindeloef

First Post
Not much answers but some questions, that may help ;)
also more specific information would be nice, so it's easier to answer (read below)


Challenges I specifically need help with:
  • How do I make sure urgency is ratcheted up when the attacks are on opposite sides of the city?

whats at the other side of the city? Something of value or dear to the party? (Friendly NPC or an Orphanage/Hospital etc)

Why are the bad guys attack this town? kill all or get to person/place xy?

  • Similarly, is there a way that makes sense to have the second fight hit when the first is winding down? Can I do this without having to suggest half the town has been decimated already?
what's the location of the town. One part is at seaside, what about the other? Some River along side the town? or has the town sewers that lead to the sea? As a bad guy I definitively would use those to start the pincer attack. But travel takes time and the waterside-attack troop was too impatient to wait for the other group to attack (uncoordinated attack)

  • I want the town to survive (assuming PC success), so I need to balance the feeling of the threat with the plausibility of being able to resist the attacks. The primary purpose of the assault is actually to try to inspire them to take action on a plotline they have been ICly avoiding.

a map of the town would be nice. Where are fortifications in the city? Is it easily (more or less) defend-able?
 

tyrlaan

Explorer
A picture's worth a thousand words, right? :) http://i47.tinypic.com/2lc4iet.jpg

So the faction coming from the water would clearly be coming from the docks you can now see on that image in the southeast. They're lizardfolk that are attacking the town in a perceived act of vengeance.

The second faction I am initially thinking will attack from the northwestern gate. This faction is a cult that is hunting the party but also holds a general belief that the world is ending and its their job to accelerate the process. Knowing of the hostilities between the town and the lizardfolk, their attack is deliberately timed with the lizardfolk assault.

Hopefully the image addresses a lot of your other questions, but feel free to ask more!
 

Lindeloef

First Post
Yeah these infos help out a lot.

Are the cult and the lizardmen "allies"? "allies" as in the cult using the lizardmen?

If so, maybe the lizardmen(LM) have orders to attack form the waterside from the cult. These orders will be found at the LM corpses after a defeat by the party. So that's the source form which they find out, that's there an attack from the north and the LM attack was a diversion.

Maybe make the wording in this document so, that the cult will play diversion but it's clear to the Party, that the LM have been played.

The Cult waits until most of the townfolk is at the docks, so they have little resistance when they attack (and hope most of the town is dead by now, fallen by the hands of the LM).

Depending on the time, the party takes to beat the LM and get to the other gate there will be more or less casualties or the cult couldn't even breach the city walls.
 

tyrlaan

Explorer
The LM are more tools than even allies in this fight. Though the details of the plotting being revealed to the players I'm not too worried about - they are avid ritual users and have Speak with Dead among their toolkit. Also, several of them speak draconic. Also also, I've got other clues peppered around for them to put things together.

Which incidentally reminds me - one other nuance is the town's leader is currently under arrest pending investigation of the murder of an innkeep. He's the prime suspect but in reality this was also the cult's doing.

Anyway, the urgency of the assault and the smoothness of it mechanically are my primary concerns.

Someone suggested the idea that the town has warning bells they ring to alert folks of attacks, which makes tons of sense. The LM fight could be heralded by the first tolling at the docks. Then, some time during that fight, the party could hear the distant bell that signals the flanking assault.

I guess my biggest worry is keeping things urgent when there is roughly 700 ft between battlefronts. Thought maybe it's not as bad as I think, since even the dwarf in the party could cover that distance in 7 rounds if he ran... hm, maybe the time it takes them to get their (beyond a reasonable threshold) impacts how tough the flanking encounter is...?

The other big concern is establishing a framework that allows me to a) convey the feel that both attacks are not just "5 monsters attack you" but rather a legitimate assault on the town and b) do it in an interesting/fun way mechanically that doesn't feel too forced. I'm assuming some freeform skill challenging is needed here, but I'm not 100% how to frame it all together short of doing some seat-of-my pants adjudicating :p
 

Lindeloef

First Post
the players could take some horses or similar mounts to get from docks to cult attack.

as mechanical wise: make some skill checks and see who does good/bad.
the bad ones arrive at the battle x rounds later.

regarding the "5 monsters attack you"
a) minions lots of them and b) "swarm" enemies. a Large creature that is a group of Lizardmen (say 5-8 per large creature) -> 5 monster token attack but they are 25-40 Lizardmen
 

the Jester

Legend
Are you familiar with the victory points system in 3e's Heroes of Battle? It might be a great way to adjudicate the overall results of this.

I don't recall the exact name of the adventure, but the Savage Tide AP included a pirate attack on the pcs' base town. It was exciting, well-written and used the VP framework very well. Your OP actually reminded me of it- if you get a chance, look at it; it was about chapter 6 or 8 of the Savage Tide, IIRC.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=20998]tyrlaan[/MENTION]
Urgency: After a round or two of fighting at the docks the PCs should learn of the cultists attack at the NW gate. You'll want to establish some sort of timeline to determine the consequences should the PCs take a long time to defeat the lizardmen. For example, if the PCs are still fighting the lizardmen after 4 rounds, then the cultists have breached the gate (including double the number of enemies). You could even do a round-by-round timeline. Another trick is throwing ever increasing waves at the party until a certain victory condition is met (eg. a concurrent skill challenge to organize the town's defenses).

Mass combat: When running a large scale battle with the PCs as the heroes in the spotlight, I combine a variety of tricks to evoke the right feel. Hazards like trebuchets and arrow volleys, ballista "traps" the PCs can use to their advantage, mini skill challenges to rally the morale of routed forces (and possibly gain some minion allies), waves of minions, battlefield objectives (besides kill all monsters), presenting the players with choices about which front to fight on or dilemmas about whether to stick to the mission or rescue a captured/pinned down ally, etc.
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
The skill challenge/framework for the battle and the multiple fronts can go a lot of different ways -- and a lot of that is just about the flavor you want to have.

The key to really cool, interesting skill challenges is to embrace the idea that absolutely everything about the basic skill challenge can be changed/adapted/modified to fit your needs.

In your case, I'd look specifically at some key ideas:
1. What does each success represent?
2. What does a single success require?
3. How long does it take to make a single attempt?
4. How can you give the PCs interesting choices to make along the way?

So.... in your shoes, I might try something like this:

  • Each success represents incremental progress towards protecting the city by securing a specific location. A failure represents a location that is destroyed/lost/etc.
  • Each success requires either a combat encounter, smaller skill challenge, group skill check, or other action to deal with the threat in that specific location
  • Each attempted success takes roughly five minutes, which includes some time to move to the location, deal with the situation, and a little aftermath. Taking a short rest during the big challenge will require that the PCs accept a failure in the skill challenge (which may make all skill checks required in the challenge +2 harder, as the tide turns against the party).
  • The PCs should be offered multiple locations in danger at nearly every stage of the challenge. The structure should tempt the PCs to do things like split the party from time to time as they try to deal with challenges in different parts of the city

So, to take this a little further......the challenge will take place in broad acts (three of them) and stages (each stage is one "success" in the big challenge that structures the whole schmiel; there are 3 or 4 stages in each act). Each stage is 5 minutes long. There's a finite number of stages; failing in a stage (or taking a short rest) makes the rest of the day more difficult, but there's no limit to the number of failures the PC can pick up along the way.

Here's a sketch of an idea for the first act
Act 1. LF Attack
Stage 1. The first wave of LF attacks the docks. The docks area are full of civilians -- sailors, longshoreman, fishermen, etc. The PCs succeed in this challenge by getting the civilians out of the line of fire. This is a quick skill challenge of a sort -- there are 20 civilians that need to be moved to safety. Every success in the challenge gets one civilian out. A failed check means the PC gets attacked by a LF (roll the attack and damage). Appropriate Skills: Athletics, Intimidate, Streetwise (others possible if the PC explains what they're doing). As an option, a PC can choose to subject himself to an attack to buy a success (make the choice before rolling).

  • Success: The PCs get enough civilians to safety
  • Fail: A few dozen civilians die, and the docs are overrun.

Stage 2. Additional LF are coming in out of the water, but the local militia is finally organizing to try to fight the LF, but they could really use the PCs to help bolster them -- the militiamen and old and/or young, and universally terrified. At the same time, urchins on rooftops are yelling and pointing out a second band of LF that coming out of the surf to the south of the docks and heading into the grove.

The Choice: PCs can either stay behind and try to help the militia fight, or go try to deal with the LF trying to use the woods to sneak deeper into the city. Or they can split up and try to deal with both -- if the party splits, they can't move back and forth between choices during this stage.

Militia @ the Docks. Skill challenge to support/lead the militia. It will require a total of 8 successes to hold the docks for this stage. Special: A failed check means a significant loss of militiamen (exposed due to a bad tactical decision or fleeing in terror) -- and all DCs in the check get harder (+2). Each round each PC is subject to a LF attack. Failure in this area means the LF are able to penetrate into the interior of the city. Three failures and the militia breaks, each PC here loses a healing surge, and the LF Grunts penetrate.

Flankers in the Woods. Skill challenge to intercept and deal with the flankers. It will require 8 successes to find and pin down the scattering, stealthy LF. Each round each PC is subject to a LF attack. A failed check means a LF skulk escapes into the inner areas of the city. Three failures and the stage ends.

Notes: the PCs can choose one or the other, or split up and try to succeed at both, which in this case may be the better approach, if they can succeed at both.
Special: During this stage, PCs can spend powers to gain advantages:
  • Encounter: Gain a +2 to a roll you've just made (remember, short rests during the overall battle will be expensive)
  • Daily: Buy a success on a skill roll you've just made
Special: The PCs only earn a success in this stage if they succeed at both encounters.

Stage 3. Blood in the streets.
A third band of LF -- using the distractions created by the fighting at the docks and in the woods to the south -- have entered the city by skirting the manor to the north. The PCs must fall back to the interior of the city to fight a combat encounter. Any Skulks and Grunts that penetrated in Stage 2 join the encounter.

At the end of the encounter, they hear alarm horns blowing to the north, at the city gates -- and the rooftop urchins are screaming and pointing at more LF coming in from the water.


End of the Act: At this point, the PCs probably have earned 3 successes in the skill challenge so far, but they've spent some resources that will be difficult to recover. It's possible, if they split themselves in act two, that they have actually failed in one of the stages

###

So, in this act, the PCs make some choices, deal with a variety of challenge types, and face a situation where they end up making choices that will make their combat encounter at the end of this stage potentially tougher. Along the way they're subject to attacks by LF, might spend some of their powers, and even at the end of the combat encounter they have to make the tough choice to take a break and let the docks and walls fend for themselves while they take a short rest and regroup, knowing that resting may help them, but it also helps their enemies.

An outline of acts 2 and 3 might look like this

Act 2
1. Battle at the gate
2. More fighting at the gate, and now they're scaling the walls, too
3. insurgents attack the gate from within

Act 3.
1. Renewed attacks at the docks and the walls -- getting it from both sides
2. Falling back to more defensible positions (Get civilians into Manor houses, temples, and inns, where they can be defended better)
3. Skirmishing in the streets (PCs move through the streets fighting targets of opportunity, end of stage they learn that the Cult leaders are in the city)
4. Chop off the head (PCs take on the leaders of the cult to put an end to the attack)

Keep using the last stage of each act as the only true combat encounter, but use the other stages to build up the story, bleed away some resources, and make those final encounters more difficult if the PCs don't succeed.

If the PCs end up needing a boost -- stages are grinding them down too much and they need a little help -- consider some possible little boons -- maybe in act 3 stage 2 they choose which location they want to help get the people into, and each one offers a different sort of reward:
Temple: Recover 2 healing surges
Manor House: Recover 1 daily
Inns & Taverns: Recover all spent encounter powers
(or something like that)


Anyway, that's just spitballing an idea.
 


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