HOLY CRAP! Please tell me I'm wrong.

[Calico_Jack73]

I'm sure this is an old discussion but it came up in my game last week. I always thought that a Rogue only gets Sneak Attack damage on the first attack in a round but when I looked I couldn't find any ruling to the contrary. I could have sworn there was a Sage Advice that covered the topic. Am I to believe that a 14th level Rogue with the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat and is flanking an opponent gets 4 Sneak Attacks against the enemy and is really only -3 to hit because of it (due to the +2 from flanking) for a total of 28d6 damage from the Sneak alone prior to weapon damage being figured in (that is if he hits with every attack)?

Please help... my group is considering playing a party of rogues in my upcoming Midnight campaign.

 

[TheEvil]

Every flanking attack is a sneak attack for opponents vulnerable to them. It is pretty clear cut and I am rather suprised that it never came up in your game before.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The thing about rogues is that they don't have the staying power to stay in combat and deliver those massive Sneak Attacks all that often. It's not near as unbalanced as you might at first think.

 

[nerfherder]

Please help... my group is considering playing a party of rogues in my upcoming Midnight campaign.

Who will be sorry when they come up against the first undead encounter...

To be honest, I've not found it to be a problem, either as DM or player.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[Lamoni]

You are wrong!

Well, actually it is correct that you can sneak attack with multiple hits in a round, but you asked someone to tell you that you were wrong.

As broken as that seems, a party of rogues isn't as good as it sounds. Rogues have many weaknesses. Enough of them that you don't even need to try to exploit them... just have a good sampling of different monsters that they need to face. They will excel at fighting some opponents, while they will almost die against others with the same CR.

 

[shilsen]

As TheEvil said, you're not wrong, but it's really nothing to freak out about.

Getting excited about rogues being able to sneak attack on every attack in the round which fits the bill is something people have been having a knee-jerk reaction since info about 3e first came out. I remember the posts on Eric's original boards while we were waiting for the PHB to come out, with people going "A 20th lvl rogue does 9d6 on a single sneak attack! The world is ending!"

And every time, people see the ability in game and realize that it looks far worse on paper than in play. Rogues don't hit that often, aren't that durable, and at high levels tend to encounter lots of enemies who are immune to sneak attacks. In comparison, high-lvl fighters are doing damage much more reliably, barbarians are doing 100+ pts on a full attack without even landing a crit, and I'm not even mentioning spellcasters.

Really, the rogue's sneak attack ability is very seriously categorized under "No big whoop!"

 

[Piratecat]

What they said. I haven't found it to be a problem as a DM or a player. Dual-weapon wielding rogues seem to get in one good round of attacks, then the rest of the enemies cream them.

 

[Shadeus]

This happened to my dwarven defender once. An evil, dual-wielding rogue who was too high level for him to avoid the flank. It did 150+ points of damage on all those sneak attacks and almost killed my character. But to be able to have all 5 of his attacks means he couldn't move away. So my character turned around and promptly got a critical with a warhammer and killed him in a 100+ hp damage hit.

It's not a big deal. They can dish it out, but definitely can't take it. If you don't kill what you are attacking, better hope the cleric has resurrection prepared.

 

[Insight]

I'm pretty sure I read in the FAQ that the Sneak Attack damage is only the first attack in a round. I'll have to check when I get home, but it seems weird to me that a Rogue could 'Sneak Attack' someone more than once in a given opportunity. I mean, how surprised are you a second after you have already been hit from behind? Maybe it's just the word 'Sneak' that's bothering me about the ability.

In any event, that d6/level is going to come back to bite the Rogue in the behind if they try to engage foes in melee a lot. Remember, lots of things are immune to crits and/or sneak attacks, like Undead, Constructs, etc.

 

[Crothian]

I'm pretty sure I read in the FAQ that the Sneak Attack damage is only the first attack in a round. I'll have to check when I get home, but it seems weird to me that a Rogue could 'Sneak Attack' someone more than once in a given opportunity. I mean, how surprised are you a second after you have already been hit from behind? Maybe it's just the word 'Sneak' that's bothering me about the ability.

well, you don't regain your Dex bonus to you go, so the rogue gets all his attacks. Then on your turn your dex bonus returns and you are no longer suprised.