D&D 5E (2014) Homebrewed Warlord on a Rogue chassis

[dave2008]

I'm not sure how it balances with everything else, but the 4e warlord had less HP than the fighter and noticed your version had the same HP / HD

 

[Garthanos]

I also took a look at the Ranger as a mesuring stick. The Warlord doesn’t have all the defensive abilities of the Rogue (such as minor action Disengage, Evasion, etc), so if they stand in the fray they stand a greater chance of taking hits.

Yeh Warlords tend to throw enough need for mental stats in that CON falling behind is a reasonable assumption and it means if they get a higher sized hit die because of that it is really just offsetting that.

 

[Garthanos]

One thing I like is when someone includes Designer notes to show where they are thinking on various elements in a design. (like in a sidebar)

 

[Undrave]

I'm not sure how it balances with everything else, but the 4e warlord had less HP than the fighter and noticed your version had the same HP / HD

I tried not to look at the 4e Warlord in precise detail so as not to be too wedded to their mechanics.

I worked under the assumption that the Warlord would spend far more build point on mental stats than the Fighter (and that they don't get Second Wind) and expect their HP to end up being lower anyway. It just didn't seem right to have the exact same HP formula as the Rogue. Ideally I would modulate the starting HP... either keep the D8 hit dice but more starting HP, or keep the D10 and lower starting HP... but in 5e the two are too linked together to mess around with sadly.

One thing I like is when someone includes Designer notes to show where they are thinking on various elements in a design. (like in a sidebar)

Good idea. I think I'll work on notes when I have more time!

 

[Undrave]

Aww crap... there's something wrong with the tags in the document and I can't fix it from here... Sorry guys. It'll have to wait for a couple of hours. In the meantime you can view the source code if you're curious.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yeah, the Warlord is inherently pretty MAD, so those are probably fair assumptions.

 

[NotAYakk]

Why have an extra attack when you just want to drop it?

Begining at 1st level, once per turn, when you take the attack action, you can forego one of your attacks to use one of the following shouts instead:

replace with

Beginning at 1st level, once per turn, when you take the attack action, you can use one of the following shouts:

If you want to delay the two-tap to level 5:

Beginning at 1st level you can do one of the following shouts as an action. Starting at 5th level when you take the attack action, you can also shout as part of the attack.

...

Replace Shout with Command? Or Tactical Command?

...

"An effect a save can end" is that standard 5e verbage? (It sounds 4e)

...

Once per turn, if you inflict damage to a creature while you have advantage, or it is within 5 feet of you or an ally, you generate a number of Insight Dice as shown to the Insight Dice collumn of the Warlord table. Unused Insight Dice dissapear at the start of your turn. An ally that makes an attack against the same creature you hit to generate your Insight Dice can choose to expend any number of Insight Dice and add them to the attack's damage roll. The decision to spend Insight Dice must be done before the attack is rolled.

Did you mean "5 feet of you or an ally" or "within 5 feet of you and an ally"? The second matches sneak attack. The first means that it is basically all melee attacks, plus ranged attacks where an ally is adjacent to it, plus attacks where you have advantage; at that point, the number of situation is so broad that it should be "always".

What happens if we apply the Insight Dice on a creature?

Once per turn when you damage a creature with an attack, you can apply your Insight Dice to it. If it already has Insight Dice on it, they are replaced. An ally who attacks a creature with Insight Dice on it may choose to exploit the Insight. If they do so, they have advantage on the attack roll, and add the Insight Dice to the damage of the attack. Regardless, the Insight Dice are consumed. Insight Dice on a creature disappear after 1 minute, or if the Warlord is incapacitated.

I added in "advantage", because it fits the idea of insight and is very warlord-ish, and makes it a bit less likely to be wasted.

Also note that in this version, you can deploy dice and they accumulate. Applying more than 1 per round is hard, however.

Astronomical Luck (7 dice) Select one ally that can see you within 10 feet. That ally may immediately spend its reaction to make a weapon attack. This attack can score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20. If the attack misses, the target of the attack has advantage on their next attack roll against your ally.

If you did the "insight dice on creature", you'd (a) have the target be the creature with the dice, and (b) the 10' range is from said creature or from you. (Support for archer warlords or front-liners).

I'm not sure how this is fluffed as a signal -- luck as a signal?

Benefits:
1. Convert reaction to an attack
2. Wide critical hit boost. If they have advantage, this is 18% (just over 1/6) worth of critical hit boost over a normal attack without it.

Critical Target (2 dice) Select one ally that can see you within 30 feet. If that ally inflicts damage to an enemy on their next turn, they gain temporary hit points equal to your proficiency bonus.

Not enough temporary HP? At low levels is 3 temporary HP, a high levels is 6. "an enemy" not the enemy the warlord hurt to get the dice?

Maybe roll the dice for the temporary HP, and add charisma?

To tighten up balance past "it feels good", we need a formal "damage budget" for burning bonus action and/or dice. What is the bonus action "worth"? What are burned dice "work"?

Escape Route (2 dice) Select one ally that can see you within 30 feet. On their turn, that ally may take the Disengage action as a bonus action.

Neat.

Flaw in the Armor (1 dice) Select one ally that see you within 15 feet. They gain advantage on their next melee weapon attack.

Very cheap in dice.

Flaw in the Defenses (1 dice) Select one ally that see you within 15 feet. They gain advantage on their next ranged weapon attack or the attack rolls of a cantrip.

I'm not sure why these are two different features. They have the same fluff and nearly identical crunch.

Form Up (1 dice or more) Select a number of ally that can see you within 30 equal to the number of Insight Dice spent. Until the start of your next turn, while those allies are within 5 feet of you and you are not prone, restrained or incapacitated, they gain a +2 bonus to AC. You must be wielding a shield to use this signal.

Form Up should permit non-block formations. "Within 5' or within 5' of another character who qualifies for the Form Up bonus"?

Hit a Nerve (5 dice) Select one ally that can see you within 30 feet. Once on their next turn, they can attempt to stun an enemy with their melee weapon attack. The ally must decide before making the attack roll. If the attack hits, all damage the attack inflicts is reduced to zero8 and the target is stunned until the start of your ally's following turn. If the attack misses, the target of the attack has advantage on their next attack roll against your ally.

I think I wrote this elsewhere, but hits don't cause stuns in 5e. Creatures with legendary resistances need to be able to shrug off stuns to be balanced against parties.

And they cannot shrug off hits.

5e assumes hits (from PCs) deal modest damage (5-25), except crits, smites and sneak attack type things. They don't shut the target down.

(You'll note that grappling, as a pseudo-attack, can often provide nasty status conditions (immobalize and with UA feats restrained and with shove a prone) that don't involve saves. That is why grapple is crazy strong against larger or smaller boss monsters. Slipping something even stronger than UA-enhanced grapple in here is probably not a great idea for balanced homebrew.)

Veteran Poise
You need to ensure this doesn't give 3x proficiency with expertise.

 

[Undrave]

Why have an extra attack when you just want to drop it?

Flexibility. It's been discussed at length but basically it's so the Warlord isn't useless on their own at later levels.

Replace Shout with Command? Or Tactical Command?

It's mostly to avoid implication of bossing other players around and give some space to fluff the character in a less militaristic view.

"An effect a save can end" is that standard 5e verbage? (It sounds 4e)

It's probably not, but I don't think this is the kind of effect that exist in 5e as it is right now. If you have a better verbiage it would be useful. There is some effects that can end with a save after the initial affliction.

Did you mean "5 feet of you or an ally" or "within 5 feet of you and an ally"? The second matches sneak attack. The first means that it is basically all melee attacks, plus ranged attacks where an ally is adjacent to it, plus attacks where you have advantage; at that point, the number of situation is so broad that it should be "always"

Sneak Attack actually specifies the target needs to be within 5 feet of its enemy, not necessarily your ally. But yeah, I mean the first one. Basically it works on everything unless you try to shoot some isolated guy with a bow or with a reach weapon. It's corner cases but I felt it was appropriate from a fluff basic. It is basically 'always', but it makes you think about where you're standing regarding your allies and enemies. It's not meant to be super difficult to pull off.

What happens if we apply the Insight Dice on a creature?

You're idea is pretty good! I just worry about the fiddliness of tracking the 1 minute thing. I would still keep it as the Insight Dice disappearing at the start of your turn, but your wording is much better. Don't know if advantage is necessary?

If you did the "insight dice on creature", you'd (a) have the target be the creature with the dice, and (b) the 10' range is from said creature or from you. (Support for archer warlords or front-liners).

I'm not sure how this is fluffed as a signal -- luck as a signal?

Benefits:
1. Convert reaction to an attack
2. Wide critical hit boost. If they have advantage, this is 18% (just over 1/6) worth of critical hit boost over a normal attack without it.

Good point on the 'Insight dice on creature' and Astronomical Luck.

The idea what that you signal a lucky opportunity. Basically the signal are named after what message they're meant to convey and in this case I guess I could rename it "Take the chance" or something? Do you think it's too strong for the level it comes online at? I wanted signals to get stronger as you advance in level not fall behind.

Not enough temporary HP? At low levels is 3 temporary HP, a high levels is 6. "an enemy" not the enemy the warlord hurt to get the dice?

Maybe roll the dice for the temporary HP, and add charisma?

To tighten up balance past "it feels good", we need a formal "damage budget" for burning bonus action and/or dice. What is the bonus action "worth"? What are burned dice "work"?

Yeah it is too low, but it's also something you can do turn after turn after turn, so I was a bit worry it might get too strong... How about Proficiency+Charisma per dice spent and you can decide to add more at later levels?

A bonus action is worth an attack with a light weapon so about D6+Stat and the Insight Dice is worth 1D8 damage... I guess the bonus action is slightly more precious?

(On Flaw in the Armor)
Very cheap in dice.

Well, a Mastermind Rogue can use the Help action at 15 feet as a bonus action. It's basically the same thing only a level earlier and dependant on Insight Dice.

I'm not sure why these are two different features. They have the same fluff and nearly identical crunch.

Well they're the most universal of options so I wanted to split them off so they take more signal options. But if I go for 'Insight Dice on a creature' I'll just have them both be the same option again that grants advantage to the attack against the creature with Insight Dice OR within X feet of creature with insight dice.

Form Up should permit non-block formations. "Within 5' or within 5' of another character who qualifies for the Form Up bonus"?

Yeah that could be cool. You don't think it would be too complicated a text box?

I think I wrote this elsewhere, but hits don't cause stuns in 5e. Creatures with legendary resistances need to be able to shrug off stuns to be balanced against parties.

And they cannot shrug off hits.

Yeah that one was hastily written late at night. I'll think up something better.

Veteran Poise
You need to ensure this doesn't give 3x proficiency with expertise.

Hmm... how can I avoid that?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Flexibility. It's been discussed at length but basically it's so the Warlord isn't useless on their own at later levels.

Yeah that one was hastily written late at night. I'll think up something better.

Hmm... how can I avoid that?

I’d say keep Extra Attack. Your wording is more elegant than the alternative, while accomplishing the same thing plus the flexibility you mention.

stun is fine, it just needs to require a save.

The UA skill feats just said, “this does not stack with any feature, such as Expertise, that doubles the proficiency bonus” or soemthing very close to that.

 

[Undrave]

I’d say keep Extra Attack. Your wording is more elegant than the alternative, while accomplishing the same thing plus the flexibility you mention.

stun is fine, it just needs to require a save.

The UA skill feats just said, “this does not stack with any feature, such as Expertise, that doubles the proficiency bonus” or soemthing very close to that.

Don't forget it's a stun you could theoretically do every turn... Maybe I'll keep it for a subclass with more ressources instead?

Maybe something along the line "but not if you are already applying your proficiency bonus more than once"