Desdichado
Legend
At least in one respect, I'm still a fairly old-fashioned DM: I have more frequent character deaths than most I've played with! 
How did D&D survive its early years?
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
Uller
Adventurer
1) The PCs died in droves...house rules (and starting out at 2nd or 3rd level) fixed this. Honestly, I think 3e is the first version of the game where 1st level characters are actually fun to play.
2) It didn't have the internet around for everyone to bitch about how "broken" it was...
2) It didn't have the internet around for everyone to bitch about how "broken" it was...
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As others have said:
1) It was the only game on most blocks.
2) It was new and exciting.
3) We would play from 8:00PM Friday night until 8:00PM Sunday night for the entire summer. You could level once a month at that pace if you survived.
4) Players had a different relationship with their characters.
5) The collective unconscious seemed to inspire us all to make the same houserules to fix the game. Most of which have entered the core rules.
Our houserules included maximum HP at first level; -10 HP death; non-combat xp rewards to speed up advancement a bit (but even then it was very slow compared to 3e) and we hardly ever used poisons.
I thought I was so innovative at the time.
Cheers
1) It was the only game on most blocks.
2) It was new and exciting.
3) We would play from 8:00PM Friday night until 8:00PM Sunday night for the entire summer. You could level once a month at that pace if you survived.
4) Players had a different relationship with their characters.
5) The collective unconscious seemed to inspire us all to make the same houserules to fix the game. Most of which have entered the core rules.
Our houserules included maximum HP at first level; -10 HP death; non-combat xp rewards to speed up advancement a bit (but even then it was very slow compared to 3e) and we hardly ever used poisons.
I thought I was so innovative at the time.
Cheers
Quasqueton
First Post
It seems some are taking my above post as a swipe or comparison at the older editions. It is not at all. Please do not read this as a flame/troll.
I started with Basic/Expert D&D. I moved to AD&D after a year or two. I have nothing but good memories and feelings for the older games.
My wonderings above are truly just that -- honest wonderings.
How is that we players didn't get frustrated and fed up when character after character after character were killed in the first battle by goblins and orcs. I remember playing two dozen characters in my first year, all never made it to 2nd level.
And even had I made it to 2nd level, I'd still only have about 7 hit points. Or just 2 first-level spells. Or a 30% chance to detect traps.
Imagine a computer game that didn't have a save function; that took 100 hours of play, and two dozen character attempst, to make 2nd level; etc. It couldn't become a great hit as D&D did.
Quasqueton
I started with Basic/Expert D&D. I moved to AD&D after a year or two. I have nothing but good memories and feelings for the older games.
My wonderings above are truly just that -- honest wonderings.
How is that we players didn't get frustrated and fed up when character after character after character were killed in the first battle by goblins and orcs. I remember playing two dozen characters in my first year, all never made it to 2nd level.
And even had I made it to 2nd level, I'd still only have about 7 hit points. Or just 2 first-level spells. Or a 30% chance to detect traps.
Imagine a computer game that didn't have a save function; that took 100 hours of play, and two dozen character attempst, to make 2nd level; etc. It couldn't become a great hit as D&D did.
Quasqueton
Celebrim
Legend
I think I started at least 5 different parties in 1st edition from 1st level and they all managed to move on to 2nd level, 3rd level, and beyond. And I wasn't merciful.
No offence, but players got to be very good at what they did. They really understood what you could do with torches, rope, burning oil, 10' poles, iron spikes, and so forth. They got used to solving problems without resorting to magic, and they made the most of the magic that they did have.
They also had extremely high casualty rates. Players started with two 1st level characters. One of these would probably survive to higher levels. If both survived, one would probably move over to another player who had lost both characters.
They also did not believe that high levels were more fun than low levels. Quite the contrary. Most 1st editioners felt the game became lame at 9th level, and would start over or at least relegate thier PC's to secondary roles and take over thier lower level henchmen as primary characters. The most prefered levels of play were probably 3rd through 7th, and 1st level was not looked on with horror but rather with a fondness for its simplicity and tension that seemed lacking at higher levels.
I also had introduced most of the 'house rules' that became 3rd edition by the time 3rd edition came out (and cleaned up my house rules collection quite abit before thinking about it yeilded a whole new manuscript). But at first, such things had not occured to us and we played the game as written.
One of the things you are overlooking is the power of AC in a 1st edition game. AC was alot more important back then than it is now. Monsters didn't have bonuses to hit (usually). A fighter in chain and shield with 16 AC was actually fairly secure against attack. If you could find some platemail or at least enough money to buy some, could scrounge up a +1 shield serving as a tray in some orc banquet hall, and/or started with a 15 Dex (or better), then you where set.
No offence, but players got to be very good at what they did. They really understood what you could do with torches, rope, burning oil, 10' poles, iron spikes, and so forth. They got used to solving problems without resorting to magic, and they made the most of the magic that they did have.
They also had extremely high casualty rates. Players started with two 1st level characters. One of these would probably survive to higher levels. If both survived, one would probably move over to another player who had lost both characters.
They also did not believe that high levels were more fun than low levels. Quite the contrary. Most 1st editioners felt the game became lame at 9th level, and would start over or at least relegate thier PC's to secondary roles and take over thier lower level henchmen as primary characters. The most prefered levels of play were probably 3rd through 7th, and 1st level was not looked on with horror but rather with a fondness for its simplicity and tension that seemed lacking at higher levels.
I also had introduced most of the 'house rules' that became 3rd edition by the time 3rd edition came out (and cleaned up my house rules collection quite abit before thinking about it yeilded a whole new manuscript). But at first, such things had not occured to us and we played the game as written.
One of the things you are overlooking is the power of AC in a 1st edition game. AC was alot more important back then than it is now. Monsters didn't have bonuses to hit (usually). A fighter in chain and shield with 16 AC was actually fairly secure against attack. If you could find some platemail or at least enough money to buy some, could scrounge up a +1 shield serving as a tray in some orc banquet hall, and/or started with a 15 Dex (or better), then you where set.
Zappo
Explorer
When I played OD&D, we did it through massive house-ruling. Most of which ended up being in 3E, so I guess it was reasonable. Max HP at first level, choice of rolling or taking average at subsequent levels. Point buy stats. Death at -10. Neutralize poison cast in the same or following round would revive a poisoned character. Plenty of potions of healing found during the very first encounters. Wizards using crossbows or slings. And more, and more... 3E is the first D&D I could play with no house-ruling at all.
Eridanis
Bard 7/Mod (ret) 10/Mgr 3
There are lots of reasons (obvious statement!). For example, character generation was a lot less time-consuming, so you didn;t feel so bad about losing your 1st-level thief you'd spent 5 minutes rolling up (as opposed to a half-hour or so now, with feats/skills/etc).
Also, one of the beauties of 3E is that they took a lot of the house rules that we used to make things more survivable, and made them part of the core rules (max hps at 1st level being a prime example).
Also, one of the beauties of 3E is that they took a lot of the house rules that we used to make things more survivable, and made them part of the core rules (max hps at 1st level being a prime example).
We used to go over all of the items in the PHB that our characters could buy. It's amazing the uses that can be contrived out of the most mundane items in your time of need.
Iron spikes were a must, as was rope, oil, and a grappling hook.
We also (I can hear the gasps now) RAN AWAY if the monster looked too vicious!
It was a lot more fun to DM groups in the beginning than some that I've done recently. Every player just wanted to keep their character alive through the night. 10' poles and rolling to see who was going to go first. Ahh, those were the days.
Iron spikes were a must, as was rope, oil, and a grappling hook.
We also (I can hear the gasps now) RAN AWAY if the monster looked too vicious!
It was a lot more fun to DM groups in the beginning than some that I've done recently. Every player just wanted to keep their character alive through the night. 10' poles and rolling to see who was going to go first. Ahh, those were the days.
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
I have a friend who remembers learning DnD with another friend, each of them equally ignorant and thus without house rules.
This friend rolls up a first level druid and gets something like 2 hit points.
He walks out into the woods and proceeds to encounter a squirrel. Somehow he and the squirel end up in a fight.
Three or four rounds later his character lies dead under the bloody teeth of his vicious squirrel adversary.
As my friend says, the part of this conflict that struck him as most unfair was that the squirrels obscenely high dexterity score and armor bonus for being so small made it simply impossible for him to try to hit the squirrel.
In the third round he had tried to run...
This friend rolls up a first level druid and gets something like 2 hit points.
He walks out into the woods and proceeds to encounter a squirrel. Somehow he and the squirel end up in a fight.
Three or four rounds later his character lies dead under the bloody teeth of his vicious squirrel adversary.
As my friend says, the part of this conflict that struck him as most unfair was that the squirrels obscenely high dexterity score and armor bonus for being so small made it simply impossible for him to try to hit the squirrel.
In the third round he had tried to run...
