LordEntrails
Hero
Makes me feel like I'm on a railroad. Very negative. Don't like it. Why bother rolling if the GM is going to change the results to fit their pre-written story?
D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?
Musing Mage
Pondering D&D stuff
I hate it. I will leave a game. I HAVE left games. I want a DM to adjudicate the game fairly, the fun will take care of itself.
Roll out in the open* where everyone can see, let the dice land where they will. That's the game part of it. Not completing a scenario because the dice crapped out doesn't make it less fun, but knowing the DM coddled the players by 'helping' them does. Or worse - knowing the DM cheated so they could 'win' is really, really bad.
*where possible, there are legitimately some rolls that should be done hidden away. This is not a license to fudge!
Roll out in the open* where everyone can see, let the dice land where they will. That's the game part of it. Not completing a scenario because the dice crapped out doesn't make it less fun, but knowing the DM coddled the players by 'helping' them does. Or worse - knowing the DM cheated so they could 'win' is really, really bad.
*where possible, there are legitimately some rolls that should be done hidden away. This is not a license to fudge!
Helldritch
Hero
A few months ago, I had quite a discussion on a French forum about the same topic. One of the "pro fudge side" was whining that without fudging, his stories might end up too early to see the end and all his work would go down the drain.
To which I replied, it is not your story that the players want. It is the story that develops from play, the discovery you will make with your players will be the stuff that you will all rember. If you want to write a novel, write one. Do not force your players to play your "perfect" novel.
I was told to F word up....
But for me fudging is stealing and killing the story that might have been. And that alone, is reason enough to never fudge.
To which I replied, it is not your story that the players want. It is the story that develops from play, the discovery you will make with your players will be the stuff that you will all rember. If you want to write a novel, write one. Do not force your players to play your "perfect" novel.
I was told to F word up....
But for me fudging is stealing and killing the story that might have been. And that alone, is reason enough to never fudge.
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Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
First, the DM can't cheat. He can only abuse his authority. Second, fudging =/= "so they could 'win'." Several people here have mentioned many reasons to fudge that have nothing to do with the DM trying to win or gain advantage.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Yeah, THAT'S bad.
I'm against it as I'm against the whole idea.
The DM has a dragon attack the PCs....and a couple of rolls later, oh no, 25 damage to character Zarok will kill him. But the weak DM does not want Zarok to die as his player Bob will be sad so they fudge and say "oh just 10 damage".
I say: just let the character die. Let Bob be sad, cry in the corner, slam doors and do whatever.
If your the DM, and you did not want Bob's special snowflake character to die....then you should just alter game reality to make it so. Don't waste time EVER having Bob's character in combat, just tell Bob he "won D&D or whatever".
You accept dice rolls, or do NOT make them.
The DM has a dragon attack the PCs....and a couple of rolls later, oh no, 25 damage to character Zarok will kill him. But the weak DM does not want Zarok to die as his player Bob will be sad so they fudge and say "oh just 10 damage".
I say: just let the character die. Let Bob be sad, cry in the corner, slam doors and do whatever.
If your the DM, and you did not want Bob's special snowflake character to die....then you should just alter game reality to make it so. Don't waste time EVER having Bob's character in combat, just tell Bob he "won D&D or whatever".
You accept dice rolls, or do NOT make them.
Musing Mage
Pondering D&D stuff
Funny story - my 1e game went online for a bit through January and February, so I had to input 4 dungeon levels into Roll20. The group goes in, gets trounced, retreats and heals. Goes back in, gets trounced... rinse and repeat. Until finally, they decide they can't beat this dungeon, but do find a good bit of loot to warrant their work and retreat for good... only having completed half of the first dungeon level.
Lots of work put in on my part, but I wasn't going to force it - that's not the role of the DM. As DM it's NICE when things play through, but I can't expect it always will be.
It's really just semantics and the result is the same - whether you call it cheating (I do) or abusing your authority (also true), it destroys trust. I don't want to play with that DM because at the very least I know I can't trust them.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Have you even read most of the reasons in this thread and the other about why DMs fudge? I don't think you have, because nothing you just said touches in those reasons at all.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Some kinds of fudging are an abuse of authority. Others are not. I do not fudge to favor either myself or the players. In the extremely unlikely event that A) the players made no bad decisions, B) the players are having extreme(not just plain ole) bad luck, and C) I am having extreme(not play ole) good luck, I will fudge a bit to allow them a fighting chance at survival. A TPK should not happen due to extreme die luck. That's not an abuse of authority. That's just good DMing.
Musing Mage
Pondering D&D stuff
Based on what I've read of your posts, I never would have assumed that you did... but...
...this is where our philosophies diverge, I will let that TPK happen if that's where the players' choices and the dice have taken things. To me and my players that's simply part of the game. One of my regulars always smiles at the prospect of a new character - "I hate losing my current guy, but I love making new ones... so I'm torn!"
And the cycle continues.
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