D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?

[Vaalingrade]

The dice don't care about the game. A good DM does.

Go Fudge.

 

[Maxperson]

Based on what I've read of your posts, I never would have assumed that you did... but...



...this is where our philosophies diverge, I will let that TPK happen if that's where the players' choices and the dice have taken things. To me and my players that's simply part of the game. One of my regulars always smiles at the prospect of a new character - "I hate losing my current guy, but I love making new ones... so I'm torn!"

And the cycle continues.

I don't mind that philosophy in a DM. To me it's just a different style of DMing, like Sandbox vs. Linear. My issue isn't with divergent styles. It's with being depicted as cheating(it's not) or abusing my authority(it's not) when talk about how I fudge the way I do.

 

[Hex08]

It can be positive. If done right and infrequently it can help keep a game engaging and entertaining. I've had GMs who fudged when I was a player and I have fudged as a GM and it's never been an issue. I've also had GMs who never have and I have run some games where I don't.

Whether it's a published adventure or one created by the GM, sometimes bad design decisions happen and fudging allows a GM to fix those issues on the fly. Sometimes it's about player expectations - when I run a Call of Cthulhu game part of the fun for my players is going insane and dying but for other games it's not looked at quite the same.

 

[Musing Mage]

I don't mind that philosophy in a DM. To me it's just a different style of DMing, like Sandbox vs. Linear. My issue isn't with divergent styles. It's with being depicted as cheating(it's not) or abusing my authority(it's not) when talk about how I fudge the way I do.

Gotcha. I certainly don't want to come off as attacking you personally. The bug in my craw about fudging the game comes from my experience with Adversarial DMs, and more commonly: self-proclaimed 'storytellers' who will see the players through their scenarios come hell or high water!

I simply got to the point where I become intolerant of it. The moment I know there's any degree of fudging, a pall is cast over the whole thing for me. On the flip side, it has made me want to be scrupulously fair and open with my own players so they never feel that I'm fixing things for (or against them).

 

[TheAlkaizer]

The bug in my craw about fudging the game comes from my experience with Adversarial DMs, and more commonly: self-proclaimed 'storytellers' who will see the players through their scenarios come hell or high water!

I've definitely been guilty of that in my first years of DMing. I recently watched a video by Questing Beast that very succinctly and elegantly phrased the lesson learned. "DMs should create situations, not plots". It feels bad to create a storyline to be played through and have the group go elsewhere. It feels awesome to create a situation and discover how they make their way through it.

 

[Gradine]

Depends on the reason. We're primarily here at our table with our extremely limited free time to have fun. "Fun" doesn't always mean we win or have it easy, but you know what else isn't fun? Whiffing at a single monster for nearly an hour because the GM refuses to tweak the math. Or, you know, just say "okay, you won." Which is its own type of fudging.

That said, I'm much less positive on fudging to increase the difficulty of an encounter. If excellent planning or sheer luck cut an epic encounter short? Take the L. That can be it's own kind of fun, and those are definitely the stories we retell each other the most.

 

[Helldritch]

Depends on the reason. We're primarily here at our table with our extremely limited free time to have fun. "Fun" doesn't always mean we win or have it easy, but you know what else isn't fun? Whiffing at a single monster for nearly an hour because the GM refuses to tweak the math. Or, you know, just say "okay, you won." Which is its own type of fudging.

That said, I'm much less positive on fudging to increase the difficulty of an encounter. If excellent planning or sheer luck cut an epic encounter short? Take the L. That can be it's own kind of fun, and those are definitely the stories we retell each other the most.

Yep, when I play monopoly or pay day or any other game; I love to win. But I don't always do. My wife loves to win too and it shows. Sometimes, you win, sometimes, you don't.

In D&D it means that sometimes the story will be continued the next week. Sometimes, it means the villains won the day and new heroes will be needed to stop them. Fudging prevents the next heroes to be born.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Depends on the reason. We're primarily here at our table with our extremely limited free time to have fun. "Fun" doesn't always mean we win or have it easy, but you know what else isn't fun? Whiffing at a single monster for nearly an hour because the GM refuses to tweak the math. Or, you know, just say "okay, you won." Which is its own type of fudging.

I mean, if this does happen then, yeah, just cut it short and say "Sorry guys, I think this one was a bit overtuned." But it's not something that should be happening frequently. If you have this situation every other session and have to fudge the rolls not to bore your whole group then that's an entirely different issue.

 

[Jack Daniel]

I don't fudge now because when I first started playing D&D, my first DM was an enthusiastic fudger and pantser, and frankly, it sucked not feeling like anything I did in the game actually mattered.

 

[Lycurgon]

I think that there are some important things for everyone to remember regarding Fudging. The DMG talks about fudging and gives advice about it. So it is part of the game and cannot rightly be called cheating. If the game says it is a tool the DM can use IT IS NOT CHEATING.

BUT, and it is a BIG but (I like them, I can't lie) you have to consider what the DMG actually says about fudging, basicly: Don't do it too often and don't let your player know you are doing it.

So while it is not cheating, it is advised it will likely lessen the players enjoyment of the game if they know you do it.

So, now on to my personal opinion on the matter. I think that if it is going to lessen the players enjoyment, then it is not worth doing. As a Player, I want to know that I have a fair chance of succeeding, not being given an easy win. And even if the DM only fudges when things are going to badly, it means that things will never go truly bad and it will be an easy game even if it appears like a challenge. I want a DM that doesn't fudge. Luckily I have several great DMs that don't fudge.
As a DM, I want to give my players a good game and I want my players to trust me, so I am not going to undermine that by fudging.

But, I know other DMs have other opinions. For those DMs, it is a legitimate part of the game, the DMG supports you. So do whatever you are comfortable with.