D&D General How do players feel about DM fudging?

[Vaalingrade]

Jeez, dude. You got a real way about you, dude. Good luck continuing to treat every thread like a bloodsport.

What just happened here?

 

[Vaalingrade]

IMO there's certainly something amiss if those same players who won't accept a run of bad luck will gleefully accept a run of good luck. It does not reflect well on them.

Do you enjoy runs of bad luck in real life?

Why should that be different in your recreation?

I don't think there's any form of recreation where people are expected to be okay with runs of bad luck.

 

[Lanefan]

Couldn't agree more. I've started to wonder if retreating--especially a fighting retreat--really works mechanically in just about any trad system. Something as narratively common and straightforward as "holding off the enemy" or suppression fire often has no rules, or else terribly complex and usually low-powered subsystems. The mechanical incentives are almost always to win by dropping targets. Even doing something like throwing a bomb to delay pursuers or bashing a hole in a wall to flee through just gets lost in the details, or means you're essentially giving up multiple turns while others get the satisfying multi-mechanic experience of fighting.

Sometimes someone has to give up some turns. So what?

Fighting retreats are handled fine by D&D - just keep slowly moving backward as you otherwise fight normally, until you get to a more defensible bit of terrain.

Chases and pursuits, however, have never been done well; doubly so if it's a running fight.

 

[Blue]

I figure that's fudging is a thing'

That's neutral - which is as close as I could get so I voted that. But there are bits of fudging I actively appreciate - like correcting a poorly designed 3pp foe when it becomes obvious in a session or helping pacing, and bits of fudging that annoy me like a DM who protects the players with plot armor. I'm not particularly neutral.

 

[Lanefan]

I disagree on this, but to each his or her own.

What's the point of using a random number generator if you're not intending to respect the results it gives?

 

[Scribe]

If its not important and it moves the story toward the climax, sure maybe fudge that number I dont mind.

If you are in the ultimate showdown with the big bad? Let the dice fall.

 

[Lanefan]

Do you enjoy runs of bad luck in real life?

Why should that be different in your recreation?

I don't think there's any form of recreation where people are expected to be okay with runs of bad luck.

There's a difference between enjoyment, acceptance, and refusal to accept.

I can accept there'll be runs of bad luck without enjoying them. It's part of the game, no different than a Yankess fan sitting (or player playing) through a 10-game losing streak at some point in the season.

My issue is with those who, despite luck being an element of the game, refuse to accept said luck when it turns against them.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Couldn't agree more. I've started to wonder if retreating--especially a fighting retreat--really works mechanically in just about any trad system. Something as narratively common and straightforward as "holding off the enemy" or suppression fire often has no rules, or else terribly complex and usually low-powered subsystems. The mechanical incentives are almost always to win by dropping targets. Even doing something like throwing a bomb to delay pursuers or bashing a hole in a wall to flee through just gets lost in the details, or means you're essentially giving up multiple turns while others get the satisfying multi-mechanic experience of fighting.

If nothing else, though, games where running means enemies get free attacks on you? Yeesh. All the more incentive to stand your ground, daring the GM to murder you.

There are a few where it sort-of does, but its usually because of chase subsystems rather than using the orthodox movement and combat rules. And this is even more true in games where classes of opponents can outspeed you. I can't think of a time when I saw an OD&D outdoor encounter where disengaging looked like it would work unless the opposition just let it, and and it only worked indoors because of the dedicated evasion rules.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I dunno. I feel like an appropriate reaction should be: "Aaaaw, bummer! Ah well, xxx had a good run while it lasted. Now where are my d6's so I can roll up a new one?"

People aren't required to have as blase an attitude toward their characters as you do. Its not 1975.

 

[Thomas Shey]

How about real poll choices, like "Fudging can be used in positive and negative ways".

I'd have liked "Fudging is occasionally a necessary evil." Myself.