How do we fix the Sorcerer?

[QuietBrowser]

I'm not the biggest fan of Sorcerers, mostly because, when they appeared in 3e, they were just a watered down version of Wizards. 4th edition changed that for me... but, 5th edition seemed to just go right back to all the things that made them problematic in 3e. Everybody knows the Sorcerer in 5e is... not doing so hot. There's a reason the biggest complaint about the Loremaster Wizard remains not "it's overpowered" but "It makes the sorcerer superfluous".

So, how do you folks think we could fix this?

Speaking personally...

Sorcery Points:The key difference between sorcerer and wizard is the use of this unique mana system... and, just like the Monk (esp. Wo4E) and its Ki system, WoTC dropped the ball on it. The Sorcerer just doesn't get enough sorcery points to play with, and they don't regenerate anywhere near quickly enough - the freaking wizard has better stamina then that, courtesy of its Arcane Recovery feature. Add in the inefficiencies of converting spell slots into sorcery points (especially given as the only advantage sorcerers have on wizards vis a vis spells is a bonus cantrip), and this is just a hot mess.
Solution: Make Sorcery Points either recover on a Short Rest instead of a long rest, or have each Origin outfitted with a way to regain sorcerery points more readily - for example, Wild Mages gain some whenever they roll a 1 or a 20 with a spell, whilst Dragon Sorcerers regain some when they take resisted damage. Also, increase the sorcery points at lower levels.

Spell List: Let's be honest; does anyone like the hard limit on spells known that sorcerers labor under? Or the lack of Origin-based bonus spells, something the Cleric and Warlock have?
Solution: Expand the Spells Known limits, or just remove that mechanic entirely. Add Origin-based Bonus Spells to the class.

Thematic Spells: I made this a seperate problem, because it's mostly a Dragon Sorcerer issue at the moment. Everybody knows that unless you play a Fire Dragon Sorcerer, you're basically gimped, because Fire is by far the most over-represented elemental damage type in the sorcerer's spell list.
Solution: Add more spells for the other elements. Heck, bring back the "rainbow damage" spells that sorcerers specialized in during 4th edition.

These are the three major problems that stick out to me. What are your opinions on them? Are there any problems with the sorcerer that you think I missed?

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I dunno, the Wild Magic sorcerer with Fireball and Chromatic Orb at our table has been quite effective in combat - more so than either wizard in the party I’d argue. All are the same level. Then again, DPR is not really how we measure success at our table - all three spell casters contribute to the fun factor during our sessions and the differences between wizard and sorcerer are part of that.

 

[Tony Vargas]

How do we fix the Sorcerer?

I understand it's a simple operation any veterinarian can perform, that the risks are minimal, and the recovery time brief.

Seriously, though...

I'm not the biggest fan of Sorcerers, mostly because, when they appeared in 3e, they were just a watered down version of Wizards.

OH... you missed out, my friend. Not that they were more so much more than that, but, because of the things the sorcerer /lost/ compared to the wizard - specifically, having very limited known spells and no prep - there was so much more you could /do/ with it. Each of the Sorcerer types in 4e & 5e that you might like? You could pull them together with the 3e Sorcerer, mainly just by spell choice. Similarly, most magic-wielding characters in fiction (and in 'magic' we can include comic book mutant powers!) can fairly easily be emulated with a 3.x Sorcerer build.

One of the more elegant and build-to-concept-useful class designs in the game's history.

4th edition changed that for me... but, 5th edition seemed to just go right back to all the things that made them problematic in 3e. Everybody knows the Sorcerer in 5e is... not doing so hot. There's a reason the biggest complaint about the Loremaster Wizard remains not "it's overpowered" but "It makes the sorcerer superfluous".

So, how do you folks think we could fix this?

A big part of the problem is not that the sorcerer is bad, it's that the neo-Vancian casters - the Druid (which I love, so I make this suggestion knowing that no one'll likely take me up on it, and I can still enjoy a Tier 1 Druid some time), Cleric and Wizard - that are too good. Too flexible, too versatile, because they have their old toys (many spells known, prepped each day) /and/ the sorcerer's old toys (spontaneous casting). To fix that, take spontaneous away from the prepped casters, make them prep into slots.

The Sorcerer still won't be as good as the Wizard - it doesn't, for instance, have the slots/day advantage it had in 3.x - but it'll be a lot closer.

Or the lack of Origin-based bonus spells, something the Cleric and Warlock have?

The Land Druid also gains known spells. While Origins are kinda a blind alley that limit the sorcerer's usefulness in a build-to-concept, they do add flavor, and a set of automatic known spell over and above the current limit would only enhance that flavor, and make the class more capable.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I never had a sorcerer at my tables, but were it the case AND the player told me that he had issue with the powerlevel of his character, I might do something like this:

1) Sorcery Points: can spend HD (max = to level) to regain same amount on short rest.
2) Spell list: Give access to what I can ''natural arcane list'' aka all arcane and druidic lists.
3) Thematic list: This is where I go into 3PP material. Kobold Press has some highly thematic type of magics that can be added for specific origin at lvl 1 (Dragon magic, Chaos Magic, Angelic Magic, Elemental Magics etc)

 

[77IM]

While I disagree with your premise that sorcerers are broken in some way (I've gamed with several, and there's one in my group now, and they're just fine), I like your proposals.

In particular, origin-based bonus spells and an increase in available thematic spells both sound like good ideas to me. So does an increase in spells known. I don't think these things will affect game balance much because the number of spell slots isn't changed; it would just give the sorc a few more options. As long as the wizard has a few more spells prepared and can swap out spells each day, they'll retain the edge on versatility.

I don't find the sorcery points thing all that important. Like I said, I don't think sorcerers are underpowered, and giving them more points sounds risky. Metamagic is cool but the sorcerer doesn't need to be spamming it constantly for it to be relevant. That's what happens with ki points at high levels; the monk has so many that they can just stun-lock everyone all the time. In fact if they don't, the ki points go to waste.

Origins: The sorcerer needs more origins. There are only two in the PHB which is sad. (I'm of the opinion that if a class can't support at least 3 good subclass ideas right in the PHB, it's got a weak story.) Power-wise, the origins which exist in the PHB and in Xanathar's are not too shabby, though. Aside from the Wild Magic origin, which is kind of weak unless you take a lot of attack-roll spells, the others are all pretty good. In fact they frequently make up for the weakness in the base class. Contrast the wizard's Arcane Traditions, which generally offer less oomph, with a few noteworthy exceptions like Abjuration and Divination.
Solution: Add a few more origins, and make sure they're all balanced (improve Wild Magic, maybe nerf Abjuration and Divination wizards). The sorcerer class story should be strong enough to support 6-8 subclasses right there in the PHB, similar to the cleric and wizard. At least a solid 4-5.

 

[Azzy]

I'm currently playing a sorcerer (shadow magic) in a campaign, with another player playing a sorcerer (divine soul). The other player also played a sorcerer (draconic bloodline) in the previous campaign I was in. We're only up to 6th level in the current campaign, but I'm not seeing what the issue with sorcerers are.

 

[CubicsRube]

Ive played a wizard alongside a sorceror (both half-orcs, go figure), and the sorceror held up very well. Maximised spell is a great feature.

If i wanted to bump up the sorceror i would do one thing: allow them all metamagic options.

They are still limited by sorcery points, but they suddenly become uber flexible, being able to cast a powerful fireball in combat, but a subtle charm in front of the king, etc

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm not the biggest fan of Sorcerers, mostly because, when they appeared in 3e, they were just a watered down version of Wizards.

I LOVED 3e Sorcerers - finally I could play a Wizard without fire'n'forget spellcasting!

History has shown I wasn't alone in this - and "spontaneous" casting is now the norm, thank the gods!

 

[Jacob Lewis]

You know, for such a popular game, there sure are a lot of "broken" parts to fix.

 

[Bitbrain]

Having played a sorcerer, here is my proposal:

1. Change Sorcery Points to half your sorcerer level + your Constitution modifier, recharge on short rest.
2. Bonus spells chosen from any spell list, equal to your constitution modifier.
3. You can exchange 2 spells that you know when you gain a level in the sorcerer class, instead of 1.