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D&D 5E How do you measure, and enforce, alignment?

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
For those who are against players taking characters with evil alignments, what is your stance on the ideals with the (Evil) descriptor in Backgrounds, e.g. "Might. If I become strong, I can take what I want - what I deserve. (Evil)?"

Are those banned too? If they're not, can a player earn Inspiration by playing to that Ideal? If so, is this different from alignment in your view and why?
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
For those who are against players taking characters with evil alignments, what is your stance on the ideals with the (Evil) descriptor in Backgrounds, e.g. "Might. If I become strong, I can take what I want - what I deserve. (Evil)?"

Are those banned too? If they're not, can a player earn Inspiration by playing to that Ideal? If so, is this different from alignment in your view and why?

For me, yeah, those would be pretty much banned too (again, unless I really trust the player knows what they are doing). Those things all too often are just in game excuses for the player to be disruptive and a jerk. To me, it's a game about heroes.
 

For those who are against players taking characters with evil alignments, what is your stance on the ideals with the (Evil) descriptor in Backgrounds, e.g. "Might. If I become strong, I can take what I want - what I deserve. (Evil)?"

Are those banned too? If they're not, can a player earn Inspiration by playing to that Ideal? If so, is this different from alignment in your view and why?

Characters, and people irl, can have evil tendencies and thoughts without becoming criminals or outright evil. Players who are not just using this stuff to be disruptive generally know where their line is that they should not cross with these tendencies. The same goes with any other game elements that us old-timers are more used to be connected to evil, such as certain spells. People can still do the anti-hero role without letting their character actually be evil, since doing something bad or illegal does not automatically make one evil.
 

Hillsy7

First Post
For those who are against players taking characters with evil alignments, what is your stance on the ideals with the (Evil) descriptor in Backgrounds, e.g. "Might. If I become strong, I can take what I want - what I deserve. (Evil)?"

Are those banned too? If they're not, can a player earn Inspiration by playing to that Ideal? If so, is this different from alignment in your view and why?

I'm a little in column A, a little in column B here.....

Generally, I'm against Evil because, as has been mentioned, there's often a certain element of either "Look, I'm gonna be disruptive, but it's just my character", or "I want my character to develop into a nice person, so I'm gong to have to play an A$$hat to start with".....but I think that's a symptom of poor character motivation for the games I want to play in or Run.

In many ways, for me the Evil character is more interesting than the neutral character by the way I measure things....I class neutral as the "I'm all right jack" selfish archetype - an Evil character (by my barometer) has to BEAT someone in order to get what he wants. That can open up a lot of interesting narrative doors: I don't just want to be a brilliant Paladin - I want to be the best paladin and I'll do anything to make sure no one beats me too it. Lawful Evil characters often, at least in literature, have the most Pro-activeness - they know what they want, and they have plans to get it.

I have a character design for an Evil Halfling Sorceror who fits in the Sherlock Holmes, amazing detective narrative. He doesn't just want to be a great detective, he wants to beat all the other detectives. He'll solve their crimes first, deliberately send them on false leads (They should be smarter and smell a fish), drop an investigation if something better turns up, and generally steal as much of the limelight he can (NB: none of these people would be the PC characters)....But he's actively playing a positive role, be charming and polite, get people endebted to him, and help the group because that's the way he'll get the best results. He wants to actively TAKE glory away from others, not compete for it in a fair contest. And killing them means he has no one to measure himself against.

That's the way I measure Evil at least......

Obviously I'd brief the GM before I went that way, but I have reasonable confidence I can play it undisruptively. So if a player were to pitch that sort of idea to me, with that sort of thought behind it, I'll give them the "Everybody has fun" warning and give them my blessing. And if someone pitches a Chaotic Good character who just does whatever he feels right and screw everyone else, I'd have more worry about that.
 

jgsugden

Legend
I've always strayed from the rules a bit and had alignment be relative to the appropriate determining entity - generally a deity granting the power to detect alignment.

If a cleric cast detect evil, then we looked at the tenants of his God and applied those to determine what was considered evil. If a magic item detected evil, I asked what the being that created the item would consider to be evil. If an arcane spell focused on alignment, I'd use the teachings of a God of Magic.

This system was generally easy to implement and led to more fun in the game. As alignment was more of a relative concept without absolute answers, it allowed for greater story flexibility.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I came to realise I have a very precise view on how the 2 axis of alignment (Law-Chaos, Good-Evil) interact, and that’s it’s not just different from Matt Colville’s, but also from the differing ways I’ve heard alignment talked about. For me both axis are continuums; I can put my character motivations largely anywhere.
Doesn't sound odd, to me. Heck, I seem to remember a 1e allignment diagram that had examples scatter-plotted all over it. Seemed like intersecting continuuums, to me, too.

So I’d be interested to hear how everyone else personally views alignment, and how they bring that to the table as a player or GM – and if you are a GM, do you press that view early on and insist players follow it, or do you only deal with it if the characters behaviour gets too far out of tolerance?
I see alignment as mostly being about how you feel/act towards others. Good-Evil, for instance, on the good side, you are generally motivated to be kind to others (or, at last, do what you think is best for them), on the other extreme, to be cruel (maybe not overtly, as long as they suffer in the end). Uncaring is the Neutral in the middle, and can be quite horrid in it's own way, though, Neutral characters can care about specific other people or things, they just don't have the broad motivation of extreme alignments. Similarly, Chaos-Law: chaotics tend to value personal freedom & individuals, while lawfuls value societies & organizations. Put those together, and CG values personal freedom and will fight for the freedom of other individuals. LE values hierarchies, and revels in the cruelties they can inflict as oppressors.

I've always found the nine point Cartesian Coordinates Alignment system as being flawed and giving a false sense of depth. One of my big problems with the Great Wheel cosmology is that so much it is based or derived from this system.
If found it fascinating back in the day. May have had something to do with being a teenager at the time. Stuff like that seems profound when you're that young.
I did find 4e's Lawful good->good->unaligned->evil->chaotic evil to be interesting, mostly the 'unaligned' which had some subtle differences from the traditional 'neutral' alignment in D&D.
I ended up playing Unaligned, a lot. ;)
It was the "complex motivations" alignment, if you wanted to play a more fully-realized character rather than a broad moral/ethical stereotype.

One of the best things 5e did was decouple alignment from most of the mechanics of the system.
To be fair, 5e didn't re-couple alignment to most of the mechanics. Which is significant, since they were very much part of the mechanics in the classic game, and 3e took it a step farther with all it's 'team aligment' spells & mechanics that gave very nearly exactly the same stuff to each alignment (ie Holy Word, Blasphemy, Word of Chaos, Dictum; holy, unholy, axiomatic, and anarchic weapons; etc..), so it's one of the few 4e changes that 5e didn't just snap back from as if nothing had ever happened. Even though it did snap back to the 9-alignment system.

I class neutral as the "I'm all right jack" selfish archetype - an Evil character (by my barometer) has to BEAT someone in order to get what he wants. ....But he's actively playing a positive role, be charming and polite, get people endebted to him, and help the group because that's the way he'll get the best results. He wants to actively TAKE glory away from others, not compete for it in a fair contest.
Sounds like a lot of players could qualify as that flavor of 'evil.' ;P
 
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Saeviomagy

Adventurer
The modern game basically doesn't care what your alignment is.

There's 4 exceptions
1. Glyph of warding
2. Spirit guardians
3. The outer planes
4. Sprites who cast heart sight

That's really it. They're the only rule interactions. The alignment names are bandied about elsewhere, but they have zero effect.

Out of those 4, only on of them really makes sense:

In the rare event that someone casts glyph of warding with an alignment restriction, what they really mean is "does this target generally agree with my ideals, or disagree?". They don't want to cast it to trigger on good characters and then have it not trigger when a mass murderer comes by, just because he's finagled the alignment system to end up as technically neutral.

Spirit guardians makes no sense: It means that you might cast spirit guardians while facing evil positive energy elementals, and your god sends you the radiant version. Or you're a priest of some non-evil darkness god and you get radiance. It's weird.

Sprites are really checking, again, whether you generally agree with their ideals.

And that leaves the outer planes. To me, they're the absolute measure of your alignment, and also the only thing in the universe that really cares about alignment, and they all <probably> have some complicated way to weigh up what sort of person you are. If my players ever go to the outer planes, I won't just look at their alignment on their sheet. I'll dedicate a session or so to measuring up each character against the ideals of the plane.

But outside of that? I don't care what you wrote on your sheet. I'm not going to have NPCs react to it and I'm not going to make you stick to it.
 

Immoralkickass

Adventurer
My DM does not enforce it, in fact he discourages alignment. You play a character, not alignment. If you let alignments define your character, then you only have 9 types of characters to play.
 

Ganymede81

First Post
In my games, Alignment is something on par with a PC's Personality Traits, Ideal, Bond, and Flaw. It is there to help provide a skeletal framework for informing a PC's roleplay decisions.

Is a player not broadly adhering to their listed alignment? I be like, "Why are you so inconsistent, fam?" Then, I'll remind him or her to think a bit more about that PC's backstory and whether its Alignment needs to be revised on the character sheet.

There are no mechanical consequences to it, so that's as far as I take it.
 

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