How does one beef up damage dealt by 2nd lvl Wizard?
- Thread starter Labon
- Start date
Droogie128
First Post
Twin Strike still outdamages every other at-will. It doesn't need the dex modifier. It applies all static damage twice, besides dex. 2d10 without dex is better than 1d10+4 or 5. Especially once the static mods start stacking up.
Also, having 2 attacks is ~ equal to +5 or so to hit. So Twin Strike does more damage overall, plus allows for a higher chance to apply quarry damage.
Once again thanks for all the incredible advice!
My apologies on the Nimble Strike vs Twin Strike confusion. I meant Twin Strike but took the Nimble Strike text. Yes, DEX would not be included in damage for twin strike - however my point was to express the damage delta between the ranger and wizard.
We weren't using the errata to PH1 so that helps out quite a bit.
Also great advice for the Wizard including the choice of powers. It helps a lot.
I'm sure we'll eventually move to additional PHs and Essentials. Have you integrated the new powers from PHs, Ess, Arcane, etc into exisiting characters?
My apologies on the Nimble Strike vs Twin Strike confusion. I meant Twin Strike but took the Nimble Strike text. Yes, DEX would not be included in damage for twin strike - however my point was to express the damage delta between the ranger and wizard.
We weren't using the errata to PH1 so that helps out quite a bit.
Also great advice for the Wizard including the choice of powers. It helps a lot.
I'm sure we'll eventually move to additional PHs and Essentials. Have you integrated the new powers from PHs, Ess, Arcane, etc into exisiting characters?
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Yeah, there is a player using a character was rolled up way back when PHB1 first came out right now in my group. You can use the retraining rules to switch to some of the better newer powers. Even so the best PHB1 powers hold up fairly well, especially the dailies. You may find you will want to switch out one of your at-wills when you start using more recent sources. Thunderwave is still pretty hard to beat, and CoD is still a good choice, but there are a couple of newer ones that are a tad better for most PCs.
Most DMs are OK with allowing some rebuilding too. Wizards have gotten somewhat more flexible and easier to build with more choices, but they've changed a lot less than some other classes, so you probably won't need to do much.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Ok, i mistyped:
It does not do that much more damage than other at wills before applying static modifiers...
nimble strike after errata is actually not far behind at level 1. Especially if you have 20 dex.
Only the increased chances for applying quarry damage and crits lets it stick out that much...
2d10+1d6 is not a lot better than 1d10+5+1d6.
Now you only have an about 60% chance for the second 1d10... if the first attack hits...
if the first attack missed, your chance of doing 1d10+1d6 damage will be the kicker. At low levels it´s the reliability what makes twin strike good. Damage output is only slightly above average.
Droogie128
First Post
At level 1, it's slightly ahead. By paragon, when the static modifiers have stacked up, it's miles ahead of everything. Applying those static modifiers twice. It's simply the best single target DPR at-will in game.
In any case, we've gone way off topic. To the OP, if you're looking for ultra high damage, the wizard is not the way to go. The wizard is excellent at battlefield control. Basically, their job is to make life miserable for the enemies.
Mad Hamish
First Post
assuming a 50% chance to hit and ignoring crits and assuming 20 dex
twin strike average damage = 0.25 * (2 * 5.5) + 0.5 * (5.5) + .75 * 3.5
= 11/4 + 2.75 + 2.525
= 2.75 + 2.75 + 2.525
= 8.075
nimble strike average damage = 0.5 * (5.5 + 5 + 3.5)
= 7
so it's over 10% more damage per round at first level
twin strike average damage = 0.25 * (2 * 5.5) + 0.5 * (5.5) + .75 * 3.5
= 11/4 + 2.75 + 2.525
= 2.75 + 2.75 + 2.525
= 8.075
nimble strike average damage = 0.5 * (5.5 + 5 + 3.5)
= 7
so it's over 10% more damage per round at first level
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
There are some edge cases where Twin Strike can be edged out, but they're pretty rare. The main competition are really things like Throw & Stab, and that's more a matter of tactics and build synergy, you still want TS to fall back on.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Um...as to the OP...
If you want to beef up your damage anyway, I'd suggest picking up Essentials and taking a look at the Evoker and the Pyromancer mages. I'm playing a githyanki pyromancer, and, while it takes a minute to set up the high damage, re-rolling 1's on fire spell damage and evocations and getting +4 damage on a regular basis from a few fire-specialist feats (like Stoking the Flame) really helps enhance the damage.
It's not exactly striker-level damage. But it's quite a pile.
I do enjoy the tactic of using Prestidigitation to light a torch or some oily rags or something on fire and then burning my enemies/various flammable terrain elements to bits.
The byline is: "Remember. Only I can cause forest fires."
If you want to beef up your damage anyway, I'd suggest picking up Essentials and taking a look at the Evoker and the Pyromancer mages. I'm playing a githyanki pyromancer, and, while it takes a minute to set up the high damage, re-rolling 1's on fire spell damage and evocations and getting +4 damage on a regular basis from a few fire-specialist feats (like Stoking the Flame) really helps enhance the damage.
It's not exactly striker-level damage. But it's quite a pile.
I do enjoy the tactic of using Prestidigitation to light a torch or some oily rags or something on fire and then burning my enemies/various flammable terrain elements to bits.
The byline is: "Remember. Only I can cause forest fires."
Last edited:
DracoSuave
First Post
There are three tricks to beefing wizard damage.
The first is simple: Hit Moar Guyz, kthx. Basically, the wizard excells at the at-wills that hit multiple targets.
The second is: Don't use items, powers, or feats that aren't geared towards Moar Damage and expect to deal Moar Damage. Magic Missile sucked, and it sucks now as a damaging power.
The third is: Wizard dailies are game-changers. Use them to make your turns more efficient and potent.
With the ranger in contrast, they have a super-effective at-will in Twin-Strike, but they don't have the same level of daily KAPOW. That's fine, most strikers are supposed to be about consistant damage, rather than burst.
So... you go Fire Wizard. Go Human (extra feat yo), and go 20 Int. +5 to hit, +5 to damage is awesomazing. Then your three feats (1st and 2nd level + human) could be... Wand Expertise, Dual Implement Spellcaster, Superior Implement Proficiency (cinder wand). Then your implements of choice are... oh... a master's wand of scorching burst... and... oh... who cares, a +1 something of whatever. Doesn't matter for this.
This makes the following happen:
Wand Expertise +1 to hit.
DIS +1 to damage
cinder wand +2 to damage with fire
master's wand of scorching burst: +1d6 damage to enemy in origin square of scorching burst
20 Int +5 hit, +5 damage
This becomes a total of:
+8 to hit Reflexes, for 2d6+9 damage on a single target, 1d6+9 against multiple targets not in the center. Then, should any one of those crit (cause crits occur more when you roll dice more), that enemy will instead take 15+1d6+1d10 damage, or if they are at the center, 21+1d6+1d10 damage.
Fourth edition is really easy to get more damage out of any character class, with the simple fundamental of: To do more damage, take character options that do more damage.
The first is simple: Hit Moar Guyz, kthx. Basically, the wizard excells at the at-wills that hit multiple targets.
The second is: Don't use items, powers, or feats that aren't geared towards Moar Damage and expect to deal Moar Damage. Magic Missile sucked, and it sucks now as a damaging power.
The third is: Wizard dailies are game-changers. Use them to make your turns more efficient and potent.
With the ranger in contrast, they have a super-effective at-will in Twin-Strike, but they don't have the same level of daily KAPOW. That's fine, most strikers are supposed to be about consistant damage, rather than burst.
So... you go Fire Wizard. Go Human (extra feat yo), and go 20 Int. +5 to hit, +5 to damage is awesomazing. Then your three feats (1st and 2nd level + human) could be... Wand Expertise, Dual Implement Spellcaster, Superior Implement Proficiency (cinder wand). Then your implements of choice are... oh... a master's wand of scorching burst... and... oh... who cares, a +1 something of whatever. Doesn't matter for this.
This makes the following happen:
Wand Expertise +1 to hit.
DIS +1 to damage
cinder wand +2 to damage with fire
master's wand of scorching burst: +1d6 damage to enemy in origin square of scorching burst
20 Int +5 hit, +5 damage
This becomes a total of:
+8 to hit Reflexes, for 2d6+9 damage on a single target, 1d6+9 against multiple targets not in the center. Then, should any one of those crit (cause crits occur more when you roll dice more), that enemy will instead take 15+1d6+1d10 damage, or if they are at the center, 21+1d6+1d10 damage.
Fourth edition is really easy to get more damage out of any character class, with the simple fundamental of: To do more damage, take character options that do more damage.
Similar Threads
