How Dragonbane Pointed out the Clashing Desires of My Gaming Group

[payn]

Yeah. And the two tactical players have already said they'd like to do PF2. It's just that we have a smaller group than PF2 handles. And it's a little crunchy for my current brain state.

This just makes me want to double down on PF2 for y'all. If you stick to moderate or lower combats the cognitive load should be low. As GM you can avoid stuff with lots of fiddly riders and slowly add it as you think the group and yourself can handle it. I'd say 5E but I know you and the group dont like it, so I think a purposefully managed PF2 would fit the bill.

 

[Retreater]

This was actually my thought as well.

@Retreater, have you looked at Fabula Ultima? There is some "roleplaying" involved in the game, but have you checked out Fabula Ultima?

I've never played WoW (or any other MMORPG). I don't really do computer gaming. My extent is old school video game consoles like the NES/SNES and Sega Genesis.

But Fabula Ultima, yeah, I've thought about it. I have the Core Book, Press Start, and High Fantasy. (I'd like to get ahold of Techno-Fantasy when it's wildly available.)

I picked it up a couple months ago, so I'm not comfortable enough with it to run a game. I do have it in the consideration of "down the road." However, I am concerned that a bunch of 40-somethings are going to be put off by the anime look and JRPG stylings. I am hesitant that I'm not immersed in that type of game. Like, I've played the first Dragon Quest (Dragon Warrior at the time) and Final Fantasy I. That's pretty much it. I don't watch anime, I haven't played Final Fantasy since it's been on disc. A lot of the tropes, I honestly don't get.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think your players have to help you make the game work. Play 5e like you did for a good while, but don't try to bend yourself to fit the system, bend the game to fit your desires. Build encounters to be cinematic and action packed, screw the DMG rules. Push your players from action scene to action scene, one big set battle piece at the time. Don't want roleplay? Skip those encounters as cut-scenes!

Drop the part you or your table. Just because it's in the book doesn't mean you have to use it.

And stop overthinking it: your players want everything and it's opposite. Dont give too much attention to their demands. Propose a game; they join or they dont. If they want a rule-light-tactical-action-packed-roleplay-less-story-first-with-high-customization-and-quick-generation, they can come forward with some ideas.

Respect yourself.

 

[payn]

I think your players have to help you make the game work. Play 5e like you did for a good while, but don't try to bend yourself to fit the system, bend the game to fit your desires. Build encounters to be cinematic and action packed, screw the DMG rules. Push your players from action scene to action scene, one big set battle piece at the time. Don't want roleplay? Skip those encounters as cut-scenes!

Drop the part you or your table. Just because it's in the book doesn't mean you have to use it.

And stop overthinking it: your players want everything and it's opposite. Dont give too much attention to their demands. Propose a game; they join or they dont. If they want a rule-light-tactical-action-packed-roleplay-less-story-first-with-high-customization-and-quick-generation, they can come forward with some ideas.

Respect yourself.

This, but sub in PF2 in place of 5E. Based on things OP has said, he wants a more accurate CR system and his players want cool magic stuff in the yesteryear way (3E/4E) that 5E doesnt really do.

 

[Retreater]

This just makes me want to double down on PF2 for y'all. If you stick to moderate or lower combats the cognitive load should be low. As GM you can avoid stuff with lots of fiddly riders and slowly add it as you think the group and yourself can handle it. I'd say 5E but I know you and the group dont like it, so I think a purposefully managed PF2 would fit the bill.

I am just having nightmares trying to explain to them Multiple Attack Penalty, Agile Trait, the Dying mechanics, the 3-Action economy, and building a 1st level character when they struggled to understand the difference between Encounter and Daily powers in 4E and then thought it was unfair that they couldn't just use all their Encounter powers for the whole day in a single fight.

 

[TheSword]

I do have Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne available as Savage Pathfinder campaigns. That could be a good alternative.

Tracking down those old Dungeon magazines (legally) and converting them is a process I wouldn't look forward to doing. Especially if the group is so willy-nilly about sticking with something.

The nice thing about those old adventures were that they were very much complete episodes. Particularly rise of the Runelords. You get a sense of introduction and completion with each part and they could very much be ran as independents. Don’t convert the whole thing. Just what you need to get through the session.

Don’t feel you need to convert loads. Take out 75% of Magic items. Everything else run the same. Just sub in appropriate monsters or reskin them to resemble the monsters in the book. How hard is it to give a goblin chief a couple of bard spells.

My gut is you’ll find it far more satisfying.

 

[The Soloist]

I am just having nightmares trying to explain to them Multiple Attack Penalty, Agile Trait, the Dying mechanics, the 3-Action economy, and building a 1st level character when they struggled to understand the difference between Encounter and Daily powers in 4E and then thought it was unfair that they couldn't just use all their Encounter powers for the whole day in a single fight.

They sound like a bunch of lazy asses. They should play Baldur's Gate and do level raids. They don't deserve a GM.

 

[mamba]

Just to distill what they want…

• No real roleplaying stakes or exploration
• Interesting tactical combat that isn’t actually threatening
• Full HP and power recharge between battles
• Can’t be a miniatures wargame because it needs to be fought in squares – not measuring tape (my wife’s specification)
• Handwave all tracking of resources, including rations, torches, arrows, etc.

have you considered some board games or maybe CRPG / computer tactical game? Sounds like these would be closer to the requirements

Not sure I know of any TTRPG that meets them (of course there are plenty I do not know…)

 

[John Dallman]

I can sympathise with just two of their objections:

• didn't like that boss monsters played by different rules
• didn't like random character creation

How frequently have you been running sessions? If it's weekly, switch to fortnightly, and see if anyone else is prepared to run something in the other weeks? From long experience, having a week off between GMing helps a lot with burnout.

 

[payn]

I am just having nightmares trying to explain to them Multiple Attack Penalty, Agile Trait, the Dying mechanics, the 3-Action economy, and building a 1st level character when they struggled to understand the difference between Encounter and Daily powers in 4E and then thought it was unfair that they couldn't just use all their Encounter powers for the whole day in a single fight.

I thought they liked PF2 and tactical games tho? Is this just something they say but are not willing to put in the work? If, so Id point out to them that you need help running the game from their end.