D&D 5E How is Artificer Balanced?
Todd Roybark
Hero
Correct, no dispute here. If the canon is an object...you quoted that above....go ahead Boba Fett.
If the canon is a Magical Object or Magic Item...no disintegration, Boba Fett.
If the DM rules the Arcane Canon is instead something other than an object or a creature, but a bit of both...Saving Throw at +0 is allowed.
Prior to Eberron, magical items were the only magical objects, outside the occasional enchanted component of a trap.
If the canon is a Magical Object or Magic Item...no disintegration, Boba Fett.
If the DM rules the Arcane Canon is instead something other than an object or a creature, but a bit of both...Saving Throw at +0 is allowed.
Prior to Eberron, magical items were the only magical objects, outside the occasional enchanted component of a trap.
No, the disintegrate spell rules out magic items as being destroyed. It does not rule out magic objects.
So disintegrate works on the cannon automatically, just like spells targeting creatures don't work on it.
Of course, you could appeal to the DM being reasonable. But then you'll find that anti-creature spells will usually work on the cannon, and disintegrate won't auto-destroy it.
Much as if they wanted it to be creature they would have said creature, if they wanted it to be an item they'd have said item.
Goose, meet gander.
Treating a magic object as a magic item is as much of a stretch as treating a walking object with HP, attributes, attacks and saving throws as a creature. Which is to say, this makes lots of sense.
However, if you want to play word games, you should live with the consequences.
So disintegrate works on the cannon automatically, just like spells targeting creatures don't work on it.
Of course, you could appeal to the DM being reasonable. But then you'll find that anti-creature spells will usually work on the cannon, and disintegrate won't auto-destroy it.
Much as if they wanted it to be creature they would have said creature, if they wanted it to be an item they'd have said item.
Goose, meet gander.
Treating a magic object as a magic item is as much of a stretch as treating a walking object with HP, attributes, attacks and saving throws as a creature. Which is to say, this makes lots of sense.
However, if you want to play word games, you should live with the consequences.
Todd Roybark
Hero
Per the PHB, 10th printing...
DISINTEGRATE
6th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a lodestone and a pinch of dust) Duration: Instantaneous
A thin green ray springs from your pointing finger to a target that you can see within range. The target can be a creature, an object, or a creation of magical force, such as the wall created by wall offorce.
A creature targeted by this spell must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes
10d6 + 40 force damage. The target is disintegrated if this damage leaves it with 0 hit points.
A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell.
This spell automatically disintegrates a Large or smaller nonmagical object or a creation of magical force. If the target is a Huge or larger object or creation of force, this spell disintegrates a 10-foot-cube portion of it. A magic item is unaffected by this spell.
In looking at the text, as a Magical Object...an Arcane Canon, is not automatically disintergrated.
Since most people, (docbadwolf excepted), are not ruling the Arcane Canon as a Magic Item, it is not immune to the spell.
The Arcane Canon getting a DEX Saving Throw at +0 should be the result, based off the text.
DISINTEGRATE
6th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a lodestone and a pinch of dust) Duration: Instantaneous
A thin green ray springs from your pointing finger to a target that you can see within range. The target can be a creature, an object, or a creation of magical force, such as the wall created by wall offorce.
A creature targeted by this spell must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes
10d6 + 40 force damage. The target is disintegrated if this damage leaves it with 0 hit points.
A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell.
This spell automatically disintegrates a Large or smaller nonmagical object or a creation of magical force. If the target is a Huge or larger object or creation of force, this spell disintegrates a 10-foot-cube portion of it. A magic item is unaffected by this spell.
In looking at the text, as a Magical Object...an Arcane Canon, is not automatically disintergrated.
Since most people, (docbadwolf excepted), are not ruling the Arcane Canon as a Magic Item, it is not immune to the spell.
The Arcane Canon getting a DEX Saving Throw at +0 should be the result, based off the text.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Absolutely. Objects automatically take damage from most AoE spells (unless the DM rules that they don't for plot reasons, as in wooden floors and the PC's clothes). Magical Objects get a saving throw versus Disintegrate.
NB the reason 5e Disintegrate does not effect Magic Items is two-fold. In earlier editions using Disintegrate was a major risk, since it could destroy all the loot the target was carrying. So "does not destroy phat loot" is a buff. The other is so they don't have to write "immune to disintegrate" on every The One Ring or other plot McGuffin the PC's might need to throw into the Cracks of Doom. Since the turret is neither phat loot nor a plot McGuffin there is no reason to treat it as a magic item and give it plot armour.
NB the reason 5e Disintegrate does not effect Magic Items is two-fold. In earlier editions using Disintegrate was a major risk, since it could destroy all the loot the target was carrying. So "does not destroy phat loot" is a buff. The other is so they don't have to write "immune to disintegrate" on every The One Ring or other plot McGuffin the PC's might need to throw into the Cracks of Doom. Since the turret is neither phat loot nor a plot McGuffin there is no reason to treat it as a magic item and give it plot armour.
Stoutstien
lunk
Out of curiosity I've been going through the spells and noting how each would effect the Eldritch cannon and treating it as a magical object it is surprisingly tough to take out by spells. Outside of a short list that call out that they can target and damage objects, almost all being fire spells like burning hands, fireball, and fire storm, combined with blanket condition immunity.
depending on how a DM rules they could also be immune to CC effects from spells that call out to solely effect creatures like plant growth or spirit guardian. On the other hand the Eldritch cannon cannot be targeted by buffs or healing spells at all.
definitely something to keep an eye on.
depending on how a DM rules they could also be immune to CC effects from spells that call out to solely effect creatures like plant growth or spirit guardian. On the other hand the Eldritch cannon cannot be targeted by buffs or healing spells at all.
definitely something to keep an eye on.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
That's a misreading. None of those spells say "does not affect objects". They just don't specify, leaving it up to the DM to describe what happens when you let off a fireball in the king's luxuriously furnished bedchamber.
Stoutstien
lunk
I mean I did explicitly call out fireball as being one of the exceptions compared to something like spiritual weapons which is unable to Target the cannon at all the same way you can't use the spell to bash down a door. Then you have shatter which you would assume would be a good pick vs the cannon but it has clear text stating that it only effects non magical objects. Further down the list melfs acid arrow and chain lighting with different but clear text to allow targeting the cannon.
a dm is free to change how spells and the game world interacts but it just another player/DM discussion keep in mind of someone is planning on playing an artillerist.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
Mending heals it. But that's out of combat.
Stoutstien
lunk
Very true but spells like healing word have no effect. I think a player would have pretty good grounds to call foul if a DM rules that the cannon can be targeted as a creature for hostile spells but are not allowed to cast beneficial spells on them.
Similar Threads
- Poll
