How is FR changing with 4E?

[vagabundo]

I agree with previous posters who complained about being overwhelmed by the setting. I ran it for a while and trying to do anything canon was ridiculously hard.

Of course I could just wing it or create my own stuff, but I was running the realms for a reason; I wanted it to save me time. If I diverged from the canon, I'd have to remember I've done that, some of my players may have noticed or I might have at a later stage (and that would bug me something terrible).

I found the realms frustrating to DM, but oddly compelling. There seemed to be a rich, breathing world under all the lore and I wanted to do it justice.

Anyway I'm a supporter of the new changes, I'm hoping the new layout and a starter town/adventure (so 2e, the FR boxed adventure was one of my favorites) make this setting easier to run. If not I'm still buying the books and will pillage and name change for my slightly custom homebrew...

 

[catsclaw227]

I've been thinking about this for some time - of course I can change what I want, I am the DM. There are not so many FR fans that require me to slavishly follow the "Lore"... So it is a psychological problem.

But it might be more:
I think the error is assuming it is my game. It is not. I might run the game, but I want the players to enjoy it. And a FR fan won't enjoy a game as much if he doesn't know which of what he knows is still true or not.
At best, it can be confusing, but at worst, he is outright disappointed that he can't play in the real realms.
If I say "I am running a Forgotten Realms campaign", and don't use the FR lore, that's false advertising to my players. I am getting the hopes of any FR fan up that he gets to interact with the setting he loves, but in truth, I am just giving him the option to interact with a setting that superficially resembles FR.

Nah, then I rather play a homebrew or a setting where nobody is emotionally invested in yet. (except maybe me)

This.

I had the Realms Guy in a realms game I tried to run at the FLGS, and I know only surface canon. It wasn't fun for us. He wasn't a jerk about it, he just wanted to know what was realms canon and what wasn't and I couldn't answer that with any authority. That's what I get for trying to run a campaign in a setting that is WAY deeper than I had the time to invest in. This is why I switched to Scarred Lands.

 

[firesnakearies]

Two words:

Fallout Realms.



Seriously, I won't be at all surprised if the first words of the Introduction in the new Campaign Guide are "War. War never changes."

 

[Hussar]

This.

I had the Realms Guy in a realms game I tried to run at the FLGS, and I know only surface canon. It wasn't fun for us. He wasn't a jerk about it, he just wanted to know what was realms canon and what wasn't and I couldn't answer that with any authority. That's what I get for trying to run a campaign in a setting that is WAY deeper than I had the time to invest in. This is why I switched to Scarred Lands.

Bingo!

This is what I was talking about before. The entire reason for the Realms changes is so that Catsclaw's "Realms Guy" (or various facsimile thereof) doesn't sit down at an RPGA game and ruin everyone's game by loudly proclaiming this or that canon. Even if he's not a jerk about it, it's unreasonable to expect that every DM who runs the Realms is a Candlekeep fanatic buried in Realmslore.

And it only takes a couple of these guys to make things hard on everyone.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Bingo!

This is what I was talking about before. The entire reason for the Realms changes is so that Catsclaw's "Realms Guy" (or various facsimile thereof) doesn't sit down at an RPGA game and ruin everyone's game by loudly proclaiming this or that canon. Even if he's not a jerk about it, it's unreasonable to expect that every DM who runs the Realms is a Candlekeep fanatic buried in Realmslore.

And it only takes a couple of these guys to make things hard on everyone.

Though I want to say:
It is not the Realms Guy fault that this is problematic - it is not even a real "fault" at all - it's a flaw in the nature of a complex setting with a lot of background material. And while nobody can really be blamed for wanting or having created such a setting, it's ultimately something that will cause problems in adopting the setting.

 

[catsclaw227]

It is not the Realms Guy fault that this is problematic - it is not even a real "fault" at all - it's a flaw in the nature of a complex setting with a lot of background material. And while nobody can really be blamed for wanting or having created such a setting, it's ultimately something that will cause problems in adopting the setting.

Exactly. None of the difficulties inherent with trying to DM (or even play in) a setting almost TOO rich with canon, history and personalities are the fault of bad DMing, bad players or even a bad setting. It's just plain overwhelming for a guy like me, who has a lot of experience DMing, who doesn't have time to homebrew, to take on a campaign in the realms without doing the players and the setting a disservice.

But I would love to DM the realms. So this kind of RSE and advancing of the timeline is being met with some renewed excitement by a lot of people in my shoes.

I know it ticks of many of the FR historians... But it may turn out to be good for business.

Hey, there's always the ability to play anytime in the timeline and not disrupt the realms as they were in the "past".

 

[Vanuslux]

I just don't see why, if they feel like they need a history light setting, they don't just make one and leave the Realms to it's glory. Gutting the Realms just seems disrespectful to the legions of fans that love it the way it is and I'm saying that as someone who bought the 3.x Realms stuff more for crunch than fluff since I've never run a game actually set in the Realms.

 

[Set]

This is what I was talking about before. The entire reason for the Realms changes is so that Catsclaw's "Realms Guy" (or various facsimile thereof) doesn't sit down at an RPGA game and ruin everyone's game by loudly proclaiming this or that canon. Even if he's not a jerk about it, it's unreasonable to expect that every DM who runs the Realms is a Candlekeep fanatic buried in Realmslore.

And it only takes a couple of these guys to make things hard on everyone.

And this is rife is almost all human interactions.

I say something about Star Trek, and *somebody* is going to chime in with 'oh, but on Memory-Alpha...' If it's Star Wars, I've got the same thing going on, and it's nearly impossible for a conversation about Star Wars to not have mentions of Expanded Universe characters like Mara Jade or Leia and Han's kids or whatever. If it's football, there's gonna be someone who knows why the Favre deal made sense and I'm a doof for not seeing it. If it's 'portrayal of women in fantasy art' someone's gonna walk in with a degree in Women's Studies and a list of historical references. If it's some off-handed comment about Frodo being a whiny twit who should have handed the ring to Sam and gone home, a dozen Tolkein scholars are gonna show up to argue that. If it's an equally thoughtless comment about katana being better or worse than western broadswords, you can bet your booties that ten thousand screaming metallurgist/historians/bladesmith/samurai are going to leap out, swords swinging.

The Realms isn't the problem here.

The problem is that some people know more than other people about their topics of interest, and some of those people are kinda pedantic and some of the people they are talking to have zero patience for having something that *they aren't as passionate about* explained to them.

It's people.

Blow up the Realms all you want, it's not going to make talking to comic-book fans, political activists, car nuts or that dude who won't shut up about how much weight he lost on Atkins any more tolerable to be around.

No amount of Realms-Shattering Events are gonna make other human beings easier to be around. Might wanna learn to live with them.

 

[Zaukrie]

I agree with Set. It's people.

And, to prove it: I don't think they are blowing up the Realms at all, not any more or less than the Realms have been blown up in the entire time they've owned the property.

I've been lucky enough to never have played with someone that was obsessed with a particular world, so I've never experienced "that guy". I feel bad for anyone that has.

 

[catsclaw227]

And this is rife is almost all human interactions.

<snip>

It's people.

Blow up the Realms all you want, it's not going to make talking to comic-book fans, political activists, car nuts or that dude who won't shut up about how much weight he lost on Atkins any more tolerable to be around.

No amount of Realms-Shattering Events are gonna make other human beings easier to be around. Might wanna learn to live with them.

Actually, for me, it has nothing to do with intolerable people and human interactions at that level. It is about being comfortable enough to DM a setting where I might have players that know more about what is "supposed" to be there than I do. Many times it's not about obsessed historians or about excited, knowledgeable players or even about pedantic fanboys. It's about setting expectations about what is canon and what is not, and when I don't know what I don't know, I cannot set an appropriate expectation.

As I said, it's not fair to the players, the DM, or the setting.

Maybe they should have just kept the Realms they way it is and created another setting. So now they they would have to support FR, Eberron, New Setting and PoL generic as settings and that's a lot of work. Just look at the conversion articles for running this or that adventure in FR and Eberron.

Or they can just leave the Realms alone and no longer support it, and create a new setting for 4e. But then they wouldn't be working to monetize a known property. And the fans would REALLY be up in arms.