How is FR changing with 4E?

[jadrax]

I really wonder if the realms is built on a unfixable contradiction. To me a lot of the inital suucess of the setting was the idea that it contained everything, you liked a god, just sling it in, thats what Ed Greenwood did after all. What you got was essentially a setting with somthing for everyone.

But that made it popular, possably too popular. Basically what was the raw chaos of the Realms had to be packaged in a meaningful way, which stripped it down massivly. Also every change made by trying to give it a Dragonlance like Backstory ripped away popular options, we saw that with the transition to 2nd ed, when killing three of the more popular gods and replacing them with the unpopular Cyric essentially tarnished the brand.

Which leaves us at the paradox that Greyhawk is a better prime setting as it is infinatly more managable, but that very managability seems to have resulted in it not being ppular enougth to actually *be* the prime setting.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The 4E Realms are a Post-Holocaust World.
Think of Krynn after the Cataclysm, right after the Cataclysm when Raistlin, Crysania, Caramon, and Tasslehoff were involved in the Dwarfgate Wars.

This is not the Age of Reason or the Age of Enlightenment.
This is the Age of Monsters, the Age of Smoke, the Age of Tyranny, the Dark Age Manifest.

Stricken people huddle in refuge camps or cities, wondering why the Gods let them down, or even if there are any Gods anymore. Strange monsters and peoples never before seen roam the continent. The geography is strange, the waters are strange, even the weather is different.
Nobody knows what befell the people or nation beyond the mountains yonder. Fewer care to find out. Fewer yet, come back from such sojourns, mostly with tales too fantastic to be believed ... or are they actually the truth?
Whither Waterdeep, that mightiest of Port Cities? Whither ancient Calimshan? Whither divided Thay and it's ancient enemy Mulhorand? Whither the Zhentarim and their Harper foes? Whither Mulmaster and Luruar, Westgate and Amn, Sembia and Cormyr? Whither the Dales? Wither the ancient realms of the South? The elves? The dwarves? The gnomes? The halflings? Nobody knows. If Candlekeep yet stands, perhaps they might know (as Astinus of Palanthus knew) but could one make the journey there, and if one did, would they be received?
The world is different. One feels it in the air, the soil, the water. Things, are not what they were.

Unfortauntely, that's not what we've seem so far. We know what happened in Cormyr. It's doing better then ever. It's freaking Disneyland. Everyone there is happy as can be and their king can never do anything wrong. The peasants literally line up to thank the king on how happy he's made them, since nothing ever goes wrong in their wonderland.

You're attributing things to Wizards' changes that not even they are. You're trying to make something shallow into something deep.

 

[Dedekind]

I totally haven't seen anything that makes me think FR is post-cataclysmic. There are big changes that occurred over the past 100 years but the world has not fallen in to a Dark Age.

I'm also surprised by how much the deity changes bother people but so few people are talking about the political/geographical changes. My impression is that Amn is much more powerful and Chult is sunk. Are people worked up about this? It does seem like the changes give WotC more canvas to work with. If every place has some change, then they can do whatever they want, wherever they want. I would think for a "Realms person" this would be frustrating or inspiring.

Regardless, I am sure FRCS and FRPH will be a sales success and, if the plans stay true, it doesn't matter after that since no more FR will be published.

 

[Dedekind]

* Edit for double post *

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I totally haven't seen anything that makes me think FR is post-cataclysmic. There are big changes that occurred over the past 100 years but the world has not fallen in to a Dark Age.

I'm also surprised by how much the deity changes bother people but so few people are talking about the political/geographical changes. My impression is that Amn is much more powerful and Chult is sunk. Are people worked up about this? It does seem like the changes give WotC more canvas to work with. If every place has some change, then they can do whatever they want, wherever they want. I would think for a "Realms person" this would be frustrating or inspiring.

Regardless, I am sure FRCS and FRPH will be a sales success and, if the plans stay true, it doesn't matter after that since no more FR will be published.

Meh. As I said earlier, all the places that WEREN'T fully fleshed out and were interesting are now gone, while Sword Coast, ruler and king of all that is generic, is just the same. Only more so. Everything people disliked about the Realms is still there.

 

[Rechan]

This is sorta unrelated to the general trend of the thread, but is more a "Campaign setting meets 4e rules" thing.

In the FR excerpts, there's been stuff mentioned called "Motes", which are basically floating chunks of land suspended in the air like islands.

My question is, with fly and its derivatives scaled back, how does one... get up into the sky to reach these motes?

 

[dm4hire]

Actually I disagree about them leaving what people disliked alone. From my observation they left the areas which saw the most play alone and changed the parts of the world that weren't being used widespread. The other aspect is that FR now has a built in reason to explore it like Eberron does minus the quick methods of transportation. Adventurers and merchants will want to see the sights and obtain the rare artifacts hidden away or lost to obscurity. Areas are now unexplored or limited in their understanding outside the major population areas. Cormyr is now your base of operation territory where the party can feel safe yet most likely a land of intrigue as I'm sure there are some nobles seeking the throne.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm also surprised by how much the deity changes bother people but so few people are talking about the political/geographical changes.

The deities touch basically the whole setting, no matter where you are.

Also, I don't think we know enough about the political changes to complain (yet). Considering the time skip, most of the players will be new anyway.

 

[Hussar]

Amen.

4E just feels like throwing out the baby with the bathwater in an effort to deal with "that guy." It won't work. Now "that guy" will kvatch bitterly about how things used to be, rather than about how the DM is wrong.

But, "that guy" won't be playing in Living FR RPGA games, because "that guy" will be too pissed off about the changes. That's the win.

Let's ask, "that guy". Hey Professor Cirno, are you up for a Living RPGA game?

 

[Set]

But, "that guy" won't be playing in Living FR RPGA games, because "that guy" will be too pissed off about the changes. That's the win.

Let's ask, "that guy". Hey Professor Cirno, are you up for a Living RPGA game?

They actually had Living FR games in recent memory? I thought Living Raven's Bluff or whatever it was imploded spectacularly years ago?

Anywho, if the 'win' for WotC is making sure that passionate customers who loved their product don't buy every single product they pump out obsessively any longer, then they are entitled to that victory. Mattel, with their Hot Wheels diehards, might let them know that there's still money to be gotten from 'that guy.'